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The Nexus Forums > Specific Games > Morrowind > The Middle-Earth Mod > General MEMod Discussion
Till_Eulenspiegel
Again, this seems like an obvious thing, that probably would be included, but i aint seen it discussed obviously before so,

I read a thread, in which the possiblilty of actually playing one's jail time was considered. Essentially, people complained that they wouldnt wanna play out years in jail, or play out even 10 days, for every little sentence.

So, i request, that gaurds actually speak with the player, and npc, in the fashion of actually conducting an investgation. In MW, if a gaurd came up to you, you had 3 options, pay, to jail, and fight. I'd prefer, if you could actually speak with a gaurd on the subject of your arrest, say maybe "But, it was in self defense." or "I thought she was 18." You know, so you can talk yous way out of crimes.

And, it would be cool if a gaurd asked for your side of a story, then compared with npcs, then came back and the like, and actually took you down to a courthouse or whatever...
TheDragonFire
Just a quick thought that came up in my mind....

Since not all punishes in real life are just sitting in jail...maybe this could be handeled like the player having to do some "work" to pay his penalty for what he has done. Like assisting some smithy producing weapons......collecting/getting material for the smithy or for anyone else for that matter. All in ofcourse good perspective......The punished one would not be handling anything of value or maybe we would be under constant guard as is obvious.

I doubt it would be really worth it putting the player sitting in jail for a long time.Or there would have to be something to do while in "jail" or something........So it wouldnt be just sitting there doing nothing. Maybe there would be actually someway improving yourself at the same time you are in the jail. tongue.gif

Well just my ideas that came up while the time is now 3:21 AM here......sick laugh.gif
seregmegil
If you read carefully suz's answer, the prisons in Medieval times are not like the ones we have now.

I think the only playable part could it be to mine as an slave, and it's not seem fun to me tongue.gif.
Darnoc
But what absolutely should be included should be a court with a jugde, where you have to defend yourselves. You also should have the possibility to sue someone ("He stole my sword!") or get sued by someone else. Or you must come as wittness of a crime.

And of course the jugde can sentence you to death. In medieval times there were nasty deaths... beheading, hanging, shooting with arrows, of course you got tortured during the investigation...
Slaiv
QUOTE (Till_Eulenspiegel @ Jul 8 2004, 07:06 PM)
"I thought she was 18."

Hilarious!



Anyway, you didn't get trials in Medieval Times. If someone in power though you were doing wrong, you died. Prison was probably much less used than the gallows.


In ME, I have no idea....
TheDragonFire
And somehow i doubt they'll put hangings in the mod tongue.gif Or anything like as it would be "kinda sick" although very realistic. And dunno did tolkien write about those things since i am still reading my first book from him. So guess nothing like that in the mod....although i wouldnt really miss it...
Quite Man
Actaully in mediaval times the only court/interragation thing woud be stoning, where someone would ask you a queston like if your lieing and afterwords he would put a heavy rock on your chest untill you confessed, so you either confessed and be killed, mutilated, or jailed or you would die from rocks crushing your lungs. Either way you were pretty screwed. rip_1.gif
Slaiv
Yeah, like I said. Words = nothing.
Celad
QUOTE (Quite Man @ Jul 9 2004, 10:50 PM)
Actaully in mediaval times the only court/interragation thing woud be stoning, where someone would ask you a queston like if your lieing and afterwords he would put a heavy rock on your chest untill you confessed, so you either confessed and be killed, mutilated, or jailed or you would die from rocks crushing your lungs. Either way you were pretty screwed. rip_1.gif

Hang on, wasn't that "pressing"? One of many forms of torture, the advantage of this one being that you needed no special equipment. Just a few small erratic boulders.

I don't know how torture could really work in MeMod, unless you put your fingers in a 240v socket upon arrest.

Oh, and nobles looked out for one another, generally so you might be able to defend yourself. If you were a noble. But you aren't. So you're screwed.
Maquissar
Of course, this was how it was in the Medieval world. It wasn't uncommon for peasants to be executed for petty crimes, and torture was used to... er... "encourage" the suspect to admit his crime - especially during the Inquisition.

However, here we're not talking about, say, Spain in the 1500s, but Middle Earth, which is, regrettably, a fictional world. Now, all I have read is The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, but my impression is that torture, random executions, and abuse of power were not as common in Middle Earth than they were in Medieval Europe. At least, they should be limited to SOME races and cultures of Middle Earth - I don't see the Elves, nor the Dunedain, torturing anyone.

Besides, if you want to make it realistic - and by realistic I mean insanely realistic as the devs are trying to make this mod - you can't stick to ONE system of laws.
Middle Earth is an immense territory with different cultures and traditions. So, the laws of the Elves would be very different from the laws of Gondor, or from the laws of a small village in the Riddermark. The laws of the Rohirrim would resemble those of the germanic and anglosaxon cultures: a huge list of crimes, with the amount to pay (wergeld) for every crime, but no real "philosophy" of right.
The laws of the Elves and of Gondor would be, in my opinion, more sophisticated.
Also, depending of whether you commit a crime in a big city or in a small village, the outcome woould be different: in a big city, there would be guards, judges, tribunals, and so on. In a small village, three or four stout fellows would just grab you and bring you to the village elder/mayor, who would then decide about your fate.

But maybe we're asking too much of the devs. You can't expect them to make a fully realistic dialogue for EVERY crime the PC can commit, like "So, you are accused of stealing a loaf of bread from Old McDuff's bakery shop. How do you plead?" - A: "Guilty, your honor, but I was hungry!" - B: "I swear, I didn't do it!"... now, I think THAT's expecting a little too much. The crime & punishment system should only be slightly modified, not completely overhauled. The devs are trying to make the Me-Mod as realistic AND enjoyable as possible, but if you want ABSOLUTE realism and if you want to be able to do ANYTHING you feel like doing, just go out and live smile.gif
Slaiv
QUOTE (Maquissar @ Jul 10 2004, 04:59 PM)
...if you want to be able to do ANYTHING you feel like doing, just go out and live smile.gif

And get arrested. happy.gif
suzerain
QUOTE (Till_Eulenspiegel @ Jul 9 2004, 12:06 AM)
or "I thought she was 18." You know, so you can talk yous way out of crimes.

Style.
Give this man an award. smile.gif

"itwas'ntmeIwas'ntthereyoucantproveathing" is my preferred response. tongue.gif



Nah, seriously.
Crime and penishment are well thought out. just don;t expect them to be fair, or the justice to be just.

braking rocks for a week is getting off lightly. we might still have the gallows. and crow-cages. and probably plenty of miscarriages of justice.

not much difference to some parts of the world today.

Suz.
theNemon
QUOTE (suzerain @ Jul 13 2004, 01:28 AM)
Nah, seriously.
Crime and penishment are well thought out. just don;t expect them to be fair, or the justice to be just.

Penishment? That sounds awfully disturbing... like some drastic rearranging of of my nr one gender attribute... (mind the grammar, I've been working with chemicals for 8 hours straight now, and it's like... mushrooms everywhere!)
Alexander the Great
Maybe they should just at random execute you while you rae in jail. Hum i like the idea. if you are stupid enough to get caught your character should die. Or not.... but its a thought.
Illuvarin
The big difference between medieval times and now is that you were guilty until you can prove your innocense nowadays you are innocent until your guilt is proven. But since you are in prison you cant prove anything so you are pretty screwed.
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