Damn,

This is so ironic......all i got is time......since i didnt get a job yet for the summer vacation. (Studiyng in Kymenlaakso Polytechnic - Networking technology) And I would be eager to do something for this mod. But then it falls in the fact that i have no expirience doing these mods etc models. But somehow i have the feeling im gonna start learning...whether its because of the mod or for just my on fun and interest in it that has just risen

If I may only clear up on one thing for now, I would like to emphasize that we did not give out any release date. Suzerain did mention a date, but he said in no way that this were a release date for Beta 1.

Thats the spirit TheDragonFire, everyone here, if they put in enough time, is capable of being a concept artist, modeller, texture artist, scripter, world builder etc. Many of us have only been refining our skills in these fields for a few years (or have the natural knack for it), so don't believe were some godly entities at game design, if that were the case we would be getting paid! Work on a skill you enjoy and apply for a position, who says that if you don't make it you can't apply again after practicing some more? Your all capable, its just a matter of work and belief to get you there.

I dont want to sound sarcastic here but Morgoth if that wasn't a date for the beta, then why the hell did he give us that date, was it just a random date he picked out of his head and said it for the fun.

All i'm wondering is what was that date for, if not for the beta, then was it for an announcement, maybe an annoucement that you have now postponed (sp?) all were asking is that you keep us in the loop.

either way its was ignorant....if it was for the beta then its another missed date...if it wasn't for the beta...then it was ignorant to let us sit here believe it was for the beta...whithought ever chimeing in to correct us. no ..i think it was for the beta

Whew, I say we[the fans/groupies/fanatics] all just stop whining about THE BETA. Who cares about the beta? It's more of a demo. A preview. An interactive trailer of things to come.

If you're going to pregnant-dog/whine/cry about something, demand the full release.

Until then I'll wait in my "patience corner". Alone, obviously.

~val, MEmod groupie~

God, I love the censor-ship.

i agree valdir, if everyone is gonna complain about something make it the final version. In the end thats what we are all wating for not the one city beta. I am excited about the beta but right now im more excited about the final version comming out.


and u are not alone in the "patience corner " im wating there too

The patience corner is crowded today, and tomorrow I guess. Still, we've gotten alot of information from this debate! Peregrine has had a busy period lately, and some other guy translated 100 lines of text. I guess/assume wookie is producing a few genius-scripts now and then, and hopefully Daerk is nearing an end to the court-issues which has been bothering him lately. I was delighted to see all these new posts arriving these last few days, and we've been treated with some great concept art, manifesting the grandness of this mod, the love of details put into this... Now I am anxiously awaiting a 30-page post from Suzerain!

Ok no problem i understand things go wrong and i will wait patiently.

One more thing though, i do really care about both of them coming out to be honest. Of course i want the final version brought out as soon as possible, but i also want the beta so i can say that my year of waiting has not been in vain.

I've watching this mod since the old forums and alot of people used to talk about the beta deadline. I think the beta coming out has become more a principal thing now (well maybe principal isn't the word, but i'm not sure what is though lol) but yes i will wait patiently.

Im just wondering something,at one point several months back Daerk said it would be a couple more days or a week until the beta was done...

How much more work could there have been?

DMKW, Please, Oh please, keep posting. Without you nobody would know anything about the mod that has been relieced since about six months ago. When you show up, I can expect an exciting week in these forums.

Over half the posts that week end up being newcomers doing anything short of outright flaming you, as if they are going to get special privlage for blindly agreeing with and believing what devs say.

I'm don't give a rat's bum about the beta anymore, like many are suggesting, I'm worrying about the fate of the full reliece. Because, frankly, if you made a pole today about the ultimate fate of this mod, I would have to lean twords saying that I don't expect it ever to reliece.

Now a bunch of newcomers can come here and flame away about how impatient I am being, but chances are, I've been following and been disapointed by this mod much longer than you. I might have registered and started posting only a year ago (because of the release date closing in), but I like DMKW have been following this mod almost from it's first weeks and seen a lot of websight and forum changes since then. If you can't tell me what the original forum looked like then you can't say I or DMKW or many others here are being impatient.

With that aside, I'm not giving up all hope. I'll still check these forums because I love Tolkien's life long works, and if he were alive today, I would be waiting on the forums of his fansight for his newest books. I love to hear form Suzerain and the ever so absent Daerk(wishing him the best of luck in his afairs) but I really love when DKMW comes out of the woodworks.

I've been meaning to stand up for him for some time, but when ever he shows up I'm always away for a few weeks and when I come back everything has cooled off by then. AND, I'm not saying he's absolutely right, but all you people can't hate on this dude for saying what he feels. Believe me, a year ago I was in that same boat, in fact I think I may have even flamed DMKW once or twice for which I'm sorry. I guess you may say that I've learned patients .

Just let his needed voice be heard, without making him feel sorry for having an opinion PEACE
PEACE

True. I am afraid somewhat of the ultimate release. We still have 2 more betas to go through....

I've been following(Well, once a month, if that, now since the Release/Wait Poll) since before these forums, and DMKW is saying exactly what I want to say.(Especially that line about "Perfection" two pages ago.)

Don't keep your hopes up. Chances are the something big will be an announcement, a screenshot or a tech demo.

And what's with the forum regulars acting like some kind of safekeeping martyrs?
Every single time anything even remotely close to "Beta" is said, they all jump on the bandwagon and go to town, flaming this person, yelling about release dates, schedules, etc.

One side you have whiners, the other side you have the "STOP WHINING" people, who in actuality, are WHINING about the WHINING people.

True, but whining is, in effect, demanding that the mod/beta be released now. Since they're doing it for free, no-one expect those creating it can demand anything.

Whining has progessed the world throughout the ages

And maybe messed up a thing or two lol

thank you cailwyn its nice to know that i have someone on my side once in a while. i'd like to think i have many people on my side but its rare that anyone ever openly admits it. since i'm this forums bad seed and all and taking my back might make you "uncool" *insert rolley eye icon here*

its always kind of funny to me...people flame me for trying to get the forum problems fixed, promises kept, new info, new screens, etc....but it doesn't ever stop them from enjoying the forum fixes and new info and new screens that get released after my "whinning". but its cool guys....i'll continue taking many for the team and you guys can continue reaping the benifets all while flaming me.

edit: don't post massive images that kill the page formatting
-Peregrine



Something more likely to happen then MEMod's release

/snicker

hmm that was encouraging.

well it would come about faster if everyone applied for positions. Who knows, maybe you can texture, draw, model etc, and if you can't go figure out how. We havn't been developing our skills much longer than anyone else, a lot of it is just believing your capable. Show motivation, work effort, and some skills in a field and you'll have a good chance of joining the team and aiding in developement.

Oh such sticks in the mud..

Gotta admit that was a pretty inspirational drawing of the second coming. Putting in "Jesus' second coming" into a google image search engine brings up some interesting results..

And as for you people needing.. people.. try offering free merchandise. Everyone loves swag.

Good point Kmfcall.

Take me for example. I had only started 3d modeling about 2 weeks before I applied to MEMod. However, I kept giving examples and showing my progress and motivation and in the end they hired me. Plus, one of the greatest learninge experiences i've had in 3D modeling has come from being a part of MEMod. I've gotten some great tips from these guys and been able to focus my energy on a project, thus making me do a lot more meshes then I could otherwise.

So, yeah... if you really want MEMod to go quicker try applying for a position on the team. That's about the only way that you can really physically help us. If you don't think you have any skills that are up to snuff (I know I didn't) then just start practiceing for a while and post your progress. If you show enough interest that can go a long way.

EDIT::

it has been stated many times that the memod is being devlepoed as a tribute to the great proffeser not for us fans.

well if it isnt being delveloped for us, then why the website, why the forums, why the PR, and why even say your gonna release it ? the simpe fact is that it is being developed as both a tribute and for us fans but you dont seem to understand that.

then you tell people to have patience when you dont show them anything? you are the reason for the flame wars not impatent ppl. you havent shown any proof this mod even exists. you dont even have to give a release date if you want people to stop constantly asking about release dates, thew will stop when they have proof this mod exists ( as in a ingame shot or a shot from the CS )

wasnt it also said that the beta is a being worked on the side as to not keep the final from takeing as long if so why even make the beta?
it wont be compatiable with the final, there wont be any quests, no new character models, no fancy scripts.....Then what is in the beta?

Just a giant landmass? that shouldnt of taken as long as it has to make a giant landmass. like the post said the other day if you cant get 100 cells done how do you expect to get 20,000+ cells done?

you say this is a tribute but would tolkien act the same? think about it

ooops i meant characters models fixed my post to say it as for the scripts i coulda recalled daerk saying that a stripped down version of alot of the scripts will be in beta 1

Multi, you've pretty much got it I'm pretty sure as far as what's in the beta. That info's been around for a while.

Rizzen: I would totally agree with you if it wasn't for one thing: We were not, until very recently, putting most of our effort into the beta. Our time has been split amonst all the parts of middle earth, and from my research into the alcoves of the teamsters forums (*insert eerie music*) I have seen that a LOT of stuff has, in fact, been done in many places OTHER than the beta. I can't tell you not to be impatient because everyone (even the teamsters and devs) are impatient about how long it takes to do this right, but that's the thing: we're doing it right.

I'm just trying to explain to you that we're not being lazy here. I'm actually really happy that there are so many people who want this beta out so badly

but how did the beta go from being delayed 1 week to 6 months?

i just think that the team is going about its PR wrong
but i dont know anything about PR so i could be wrong

also you kinda just proved my point

Dude, practice your scripting for a while and put in an application. Seriously you have nothing to lose and if later, you think you're doing a bit better at scripting, then you can re-apply with updated examples.

To answer some of your questions:

Why did the beta get delayed for so long?
my answer to that is: I honestly don't know. I wasn't here for that entire time. I guess that it's not entirely true that I don't know why it was delayed for a while but I don't want to overstep my bounds and say anything (especially if I don't know what I"m talking about). However, the recent batches of artwork and screenshots should point to the fact that there is a lot of work being done now.

Why make a beta1?
Well, I think that most people here want to see a playable beta. I know I do and besides the work we're putting into the beta isn't just going to get scrapped once we start working on other stuff. Basically, we're just focusing on certain things and when they're all done we'll release what we have for it. It'll eventually get into the game too, so all we're really doing is being selective with what we are working on right now.
But, if you don't want the beta I guess you could talk to the Devs and maybe you would be able to convince them that it's a good idea but i think some of the comunity would lynch you first

well the main problem i have with scripting and most the CS is i can never think what to do. i always seem to go brain dead unless someone tells me what they need done. as for the only time i did think of something that could be Done i then find out it most likely is not possable. i would love to join the team but at my rate itll never happen but i could apply for a PR spot but i am unsure as to what i would do as a PR

Try going to the official morrowind forums and check out the Mod section. Search for "REQ" and see if you can find some ideas there. It'll at least give you an idea as to what you could try to do.

will do

Yo rizzen, Brood here, add me to you messenger list, rebel29_7_w@hotmail.com

Spam....


Anyway, as I said earlier: Rizzen, chill out. Not a flame, but a suggestion. You aren't giving anything back to the Developers, so how can you expect them to satisfy your demands? Answer: They are doing this for free, so no one can demand anything.

Oh, and if you think the Beta will be nothing but an empty city in Morrowind, then why are you so obsessed with having it right now?

LMAO @ DeadTree...You're the man! New poll...which is more likely to happen in our lifetime; MEMod's Final Release or Jesus' Second Coming? I'll put a fiver on Jesus, and a tenner on MEMod.

The inevitably of these threads, really - it amazes me how the devs and teamsters get worked up about it when, historic pattern shows these come around once or twice every few months (normally when DKMW rears his head here!). We really should start linking back to other threads which have taken a similar course and save our fingers the effort of typing "just wait you impatient bastards".

im bound to get flamed bad for this but i think that devs shouldnt even be makig the beta its just a waste of time.

and what do you mean the devs dont owe me or anybody else anything?
they may not know it but they do owe me and every other fan.
the reason for this is because they have designed a website, hired pr, and even asked us for help.

now i dont mean to disrespect anyone like i said earlier i just consider this a healthy debate

They owe you anything. You haven't given them anything. Sure, if they didn't make it, they'd be lying, but still, they don't owe you anything.

...being a debate i would like to add my opinion:

the developers of me mod do not owe us anything in their minds, and they are correct. In their minds they "owe" something to Tolkien, which i believe is also correct. Tolkien was a genius and he deserves a tribute, if some people want to give it a shot they are welcome too, and in this case I am sure tolkien would be very proud if not honored that his works have inspired so many people to spend their time to do something of this magnitude for free in his honor.

Whether you beleive it or not, this mod is for Tolkien, not the fans on this forum, although I am looking foreward to its final release <and betas> just as much as anyone else.

as for the devs asking the public for help: they have every right too, although the primary goal for this mod is as a tribute to Tolkien (as i understand it) the developers still want to please their fans, and if they ask a fan or the fans at large to put their skills to use in the production of MEMod whatever fan that is is helping themselves just as much as the devs because their contribution will speed up the mods production and that fan will get to enjoy the mod themselves quicker.

It seems that some of us here at the forums have not realized how selfless the developers of this mod are, and those who have not realized are the ones that think the devs owe them something. You must remember that it is your choice to follow this mod, and therefore nobody owes you anything if you wait a while.... if you think its too long or that the devs are letting you down then you should not be following the mod at all.


DISCLAIMER: Obviously I am not a teamster, in fact I am more like the guy in the Wendy's commercial... so a dev can void anything that I said that they disagree with or think I did not represent accuratly, but I do feel the neeed to express my opinion... ^so I did^

edit: what Slaiv said

we have given them support, ideas, and fans. they have given us what? and this whole everything has to be perfect and we cant tell you what cause its a secret doesnt fly with me. im soory if this irrates anyone but me as a person when i see something wrong or someone doing something wrong i state my opinion

im not demanding anything here im just stateing what i think needs to be said

EDIT - they make a site, PR, we give them support and fans so i belive we owe each other just my opinion

EDIT 2 - some people think i am sayin this as way to get the beta out faster INCORRECT i dont even want the beta i think the devs time could be better spent on the final

okay, yes the fans on this forum have given the devs support and ideas etc. but you left the word "yet" out of your statement... have some patience

Right. Here's my view as a teamster on all of these shinanigans.

Common knowledge that seems to of been forgotten: The Demo is part of MeMod proper. This is not something thats been reiterated for a while, but the imaganitive use of a certain under-used function on the forums would bring it up pretty quickly, I'm sure. why on earth would we as the team spend ages developing and designing architecture for a culture that would ultimately discarded afterwards? That would be mad.

As for oweing the fans something. I agree and understand that not delivering on the demo would be letting everyone down. And that everyone's eager for a release. We are working as hard as our real lives and sanity allow to get the Demo out as soon as possible, but it certainly will not be released before it is ready... This is not an unhealthy obession with perfection, but simply making sure that any material released to the public is consistent in quality and meets the requirements of its original design.

The very fact that the team strives for such quality and is careful about what reaches the public domain speaks volumes about the seriousness and dedication of those people who responsible for its overall design. Its not a half-arsed effort, each and every CA and model that comes through the production process is modified and supervised until it reaches the neccesary standard - not only in aesthetic quality, but also for historical realism and continuity within the culture that it belongs to. Each and every model in the Demo is completely original, and has been through this process.

As for comparing the amount of time taken to complete 100 cells and extrapolating that into a formula for the whole project... The models used within the demo will not be exclusive to these cells - physical world building is relatively quick compared to the design stages. The building of the demo has involved the full detailing of one culture and climate, which will acount for a far larger area that the 100 cells in the mod.

Well, just wanted to express my opinion on the matter. I hope everyone enjoys the Demo when it arrives.

Ember.

I first learned about this mod way back then.....atleast half an year ago. i saw it was still in very early stages.....well i wasnt sure what stage it was in but in very start atleast.Same time I decided that i wont start following the progress yet because i knew it would take loads and loads of time to finish.Well after all that time i stumbled upon this site again and saw that something had happened already.

I decided to join the forums and give some ideas. I actually started reading tolkiens books now and im starting to learn about modelling,texturing,scripting....the whole lot........maybe if some part of these seem to be a good one for me ill start putting more effort in it......maybe someday apply for the MEMOD team.As i wanna help to make it to the final version.

I know there is a possibility that the mod will never make it....although the ppl seem to be serious about it. When i started doing all this inspired by the mod i acknowledged that things might go wrong and the making of the mod stopped.But still these things im learning wont do me any bad in the long run...I'll learn new things while doing something im REALLY interested on. After all my future job will be with everything to do with computers and such.

Atleast for my part.......never have i thought that the devs would owe me anything....their doing this for their own reasons.....and im just there trying to help...no matter what the outcome. They have made it VERY clear for why they are doing this mod.......as a tribute. Naturally i would be very dissapointed if the mod didnt come out....but hell......the dissapointment wouldnt be the first in my life. So ill just wait and see and hope for the best at the same time trying to help.....

A long story lol but there is my opinion of these things

I agree. Anyone who demands satisfaction instantly does not deserve to play the mod. The Devs are selfless; they are not getting anything for this mod. If you want demands, you should make your own mod.

We wuv you too Slaiv .

slaiv obviously you didnt read my posts correct i am not demanding the beta be released in fact i want them to not even make the beta as it is taking too much time away from the final.
the only thing i am demanding is this community get more respect than what has been given to them.
right now this community is like a a puppy whos master wont feed it or a child whos parents ignore it if the devs were parents and this community were the child the devs would be in jail for child abuse.
i am now done posting on this topic as i have stated my full opinion

remember HEALTHY debate not flame war plz

Okay, I get your posts. While the Beta will take away time from the final, it is still good for something. It gauges the public's reaction, lets the public have an idea of what the mod will be like, shows off the Dev's creativity, and allows a more widespread debug test. While I agree with your analogies, we won't be taken away from our homes by the ASPCA/Child Care if we are neglected.