So wait... uhmmm... HOLLEY MOLLEY!!! MEgame is going to be like an actual game?
Like one I could buy at Walmart?

And MEmod is like a focus group type thing to guage public intrest?

Whoa, dude, I'm posting links to MEmod on every freekin sight I can. Everyone in the world will know by the time I'm done. Mua HA ha haaa!!!

*Cailwyn's brain begins to melt at the posiblity of exploring the whole of Endor Endor in the breath-taking beauty and realism of the X-Ray engine (hell, since this is speculation Monday why not say 'the whole of Arda').*

OH... OOOOOOOH!!! Hey wait a minute! X-Ray engine suports M-U-L-T-I-P-L-A-Y-E-R!!!!! Thats right folks, Travel the vastness of Tolkien's world and bring along a buddy or two to share in the experience.

All right, so... I'm on like a 20 hour caffeen binge and have lost all feeling and inhabition. Coffee can be sooo wonderful.

P.S. Do NOT take anything writen here serious exept peragraphs 1-3 and maybe paragraph 5.


pEaCe

Im sure most of us share those same exact feelings

And yes....im a coffeeholic too

And I want to add:

- MeMod is made by fans for free.

- MeGame will be made by daerk's game company (to be founded)

Personally, I kind of like that fact that MEMod will be on a somewhat defunct engine. Every time that a company comes out with a new earth-shattering engine, a whole lot (if not the majority) of the game development is geared toward graphics and, increasingly, in the physical (read: physics) aspect of the engine. I've been a hard-core RPGer for a decade and a half, and, with a few notable exceptions, it seems that, on average, the quality of the game's story (which is what draws you into the game in the first place) and ambience (which is what keeps you there) is traded in to make it a world full of eye candy. Take the "Diablo" series, for instance. The game itself was pretty mediocre--click a mouse and hunt for treasure endlessly--but I was irrevocably lost in its story, making it a game that I will still occasionally play to this day. It was 2d and visually bland, but a wonderful way to while the time away. Hell, I just finished Divine Divinity, which is basically Diablo without the linear plotline, and I had a lot more fun playing that than 90% of the newer games (not just RPGs) that offer fully 3d modeled worlds.

Err. . . ahem, sorry that I got off track there. My point is that the MEMod developers can focus a lot more of their time and energy into making a game with a wonderful story (or interpretation of a story) and playing experience instead of having to start from scratch every time the new superfunkalicious-uber-physics-engine-3000 comes out for some newer game. As a nice bonus, the game will look nice.

I'm particularly excited at the idea that if this mod becomes a phenomenon that the team would consider working on the other parts of Middle Earth and maybe even being an "evil" player. I've always dreamed of roaming the lush Southern jungle or the massive Eastern plains. And given the fact that Tolkien left much of this area rather vague, the team could flesh it out in a wonderful way. I have faith in you guys.

Anyway, that's my (probably rather obvious) two cents. . .

And for all you who don't know, the best game series ever created was Castlevania. And Simon's Quest was the best of the best.

Peace.

I was waiting for MEmod for some time, and I must say I was disapointed since it still isnt comming out anytime soon, or so it seems, but I must say it's worth the wait.

Date-wise, Morrowind is still a great game, even compared to many other new games. The graphics of Morrowind are still good, dare I say very good, even compared to newer games featuring better graphics. Even in 1 year, I believe Morrowind will still feature decent graphics compared to newer engines.
Sure Morrowind may lack the eye-candies people will be used to some years forward, but a good RPG survives even when it graphic dies. I still see many people praising games like Planescape Torment as the still-greatest RPGs ever. I must say I am one of those people myself.
When I started Planescape, I thought the old graphics will ruin everything for me. I only played it for the first time a few months ago, so the differences can be amazing. Still, once I got into the game, I didnt even give one look over the graphic. The game was amazing, intresting, never boring, set in a great environment and world - I just saw the graphic as simply a way to let me see and play in this great game, and I didnt feel like I need any fancy stuff.

Planescape is a pretty much OLD game, especially with the amazing advancement these years have brought to video games graphic-wise, and yet I still enjoy playing it and never notice the old graphics.

Now Morrowind wont get old so quickly, and for an RPG, it still contains, and will for some time, very good graphics, in my opinion. If MEmod will improve the graphics even further, I dont see any problem with it. The effects in the game can be annoying to watch (s I must admit, enchanted items in Morrowind look UGLY), I dont think such eye candies will matter so much considering what we are talking about here. It's a Middle Earth mod, it lets you freely explore and play in a Middle Earth enviroment, something never done before. In my eyes, this just has EYE CANDY written all over it, and I couldnt care less about graphics if it is going to be good as it sounds.

I think what is done here is a great, amazing project giving us a possibility to freely explore a rich and beautiful world, a thing that was not done so far. This kind of project takes time, and consider the fact those working on it are not even getting paid. If it is gonna take more time, I am willing to wait for it.

And as for the 100 man-years, dont forget that in order to create TES3, the game world itself was only PART of the work needed to create the game. Bethesda had to work on endless things to make the game, while the MEmod team only has to work on the game world alone (models, landscapes, cities, characters, plots, etc.). I think you should take that under consideration when you try to compare TES3 to a mod created in it. I doubt it is going to take THAT long, and I am not at all worried about bad old graphics even in a couple of years to come.

Only thing I am concerned, if I will still be around to play the mod when it comes out, so I can only hope it wont take TOO long, or that it will end up a disapointed, because I have seen many great and promising custom projects ending up with a great and promising custom disapointment (Hides himself behind a Mithril shield).

I think what drove me to keep playing morrowind and coming back for more, was the overwhelming amount of items and armor, along with the constant developement of your character. You constantly felt like you were improving and finding your own path, by constantly finding items and new locations. Every turn had a dungeon, enemy, or new item for you to delve into.

That is an excellent post, WickedArtist, good points. A post like that ought to make devs and teamsters alike realise that many of us fans will wait for this no matter how long and will supply the team with moral support whenever needed.

I kept coming back for the same reasons, kfmccal. But that makes me think about what you expect MEMod to have as that kind of motivator? The sheer vastness of the world?

pharzon..

Just a rant - not an attack on Wickedartist:

Are you kidding? Morrowind has awful graphics. Horrible, hideous, ugly, disgusting graphics [note that the Devs are upgrading them with things such as pixelated grass]:

Morrowind:


Half Life 2:


S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:


Unreal 3 Engine [Absolutely beautiful, by the way]:


You get the point.

I do agree with you on the fact that graphics don't matter, and it's the gameplay that counts.

One final rant: Planescape has hand-drawn graphics. In no way do they look old. Just like Baldur's Gate. Sure, they may seem old because no one uses hand-drawn graphics anymore, but they are still good nonetheless.

Sorry for killing the thread for 56k users.

Interesting screenies! However, for me graphics is just an extra. I mean, I'd rather play a game with a good interface, a nice plot, and enough paths to follow to enjoy a decent replayability, than a beautiful game that sucks in everything else but graphics. To prove it: the games that I have been playing lately are mostly "abandonware" games, i.e. games that were on the market so long ago that they aren't being sold anymore and that can be now legally be downloaded from the internet. For example, games like HIDDEN AGENDA (black and white hideous graphics, but great), SHADOW PRESIDENT or even "action" games, like the all time classic BUBBLE BOBBLE, or rpgs like SPIRIT OF EXCALIBUR. I am talking about games that were on the market in the 1980s and 1990s. The only recent game I am playing, besides Morrowind, is EUROPA UNIVERSALIS II, and everyone else that has played it can safely tell you that its graphics are nothing special.

Even if you were to release the ME-MOD 10 years from now, it will be still a very interesting game for me. And, besides, I am sure that if EA and Vivendi will make new Tolkien-based games, they will feature great graphics, but they shall nonetheless fail to capture the spirit of Middle Earth

Interesting screenies! However, for me graphics is just an extra. I mean, I'd rather play a game with a good interface, a nice plot, and enough paths to follow to enjoy a decent replayability, than a beautiful game that sucks in everything else but graphics. To prove it: the games that I have been playing lately are mostly "abandonware" games, i.e. games that were on the market so long ago that they aren't being sold anymore and that can be now legally be downloaded from the internet. For example, games like HIDDEN AGENDA (black and white hideous graphics, but great), SHADOW PRESIDENT or even "action" games, like the all time classic BUBBLE BOBBLE, or rpgs like SPIRIT OF EXCALIBUR. I am talking about games that were on the market in the 1980s and 1990s. The only recent game I am playing, besides Morrowind, is EUROPA UNIVERSALIS II, and everyone else that has played it can safely tell you that its graphics are nothing special.

Even if you were to release the ME-MOD 10 years from now, it will be still a very interesting game for me. And, besides, I am sure that if EA and Vivendi will make new Tolkien-based games, they will feature great graphics, but they shall nonetheless fail to capture the spirit of Middle Earth

Argh! I was scrolling fast down all the posts, when suddenly, my eyes caught a glimpse of something looking like in-game screens! Keep in mind I was auto-scrolling really fast down the page when I saw the screens Slaiv posted. I got so exited, since I for a split second believed this was Memod in-game screens, only to find out they were not... Imagine the anti-climax, just like unwrapping a solid present at Christmas and lo! A shirt in a daft wooden box...

Yes, Suzerain, you MAY take this post as a hint

* grats slaiv..
You've found the nicest picture from morrowind!
*khm
btw stalker and u3e have nice graphics but i cant see anythin special about hl2..

and memod will look GOOD!
and this topic is pointless..

Halflife to me is the best non-nontactical shooter I've ever played. I'm pretty much sure that Doom III will have poor replay value and even suckyer multiplayer (4 player?!?!) Unreal is the single worst shooter around. HL2 is where its at. But I'm really holding my breath for Operation Flashpoint 2.

peace

Hmm, in my oppinion the graphics in Morrowind are actually very good. If you're talking about cutting edge, they arn't. But if you're talking about decent and imersive graphics, they are. In the long run, the reason that MEMod is being made for Morrowind is because it's still the best RPG engine in the world that can handle a mod of this caliber (Remember STALKER engine and construction set are not out yet ).

I"m sure that if we waited for STALKER to come out we could do MEMod and make the graphics absolutely phenominal but the problem is that would have meant starting the mod with that intent. At this point we've invested so much effort into the morrowind engine that it would be more than a simple port over to the STALKER engine.

However, trust me, from what I've seen and what has been released to the community you should be able to see that we have been taking into consideration that the Morrowind engine is dated and the graphics that come standard are sub par by now. Our graphics are much better and our meshes are more detailed than the default Morrowind ones are. This is why the system requirements are higher for MEMod than for vanilla morrowind.

You will not be disappointed by MEMod when you see all the new models

As for the screenshots, I think no one should EVER compare RPG graphics, to Action game graphics.
Nothing against action games, and I *ADORE* Half-Life frankly, but nearly all action games are ALL about good graphics. Action games are so alike, so relatively identical to each other, the only thing seperating them and making them better than one another are mostly graphics.

RPGs are not about graphics at all. Graphics for RPGs are only eye-candies in my opinion, while the real meat of the RPG comes in the storyline, the RPing options, about beautifully detailed worlds, and everything else RP-related.

When you look at games like Half-Life 2, Unreal 3, and such new Action games - Morrowind graphic are totaly horrible, but Morrowind, despite some FPS elements, still has relatively good graphics, especially compared to other RPGs.
Morrowind is a fantastic game, and every time I go around and look at the beautiful sceneries in the original game, I realize once again how beautiful the game can be, and not because of the excellent graphics, but what you can do to make the graphics not-so-important.

Take a look at these screenshots (Ill give a link, for the low connections):
http://www.csis.gvsu.edu/~vanlandw/Picture...eenShot%206.jpg
http://www.sg.hu/kep/2002_03/morrowind_elozetes_02.jpg
http://esotech.free.fr/pub/Morrowind.jpg

These pictures are pure screenshots, so they dont look good as in the real game, of course. The graphics arent great, even in the real game, but the screenshots look still impressive in my opinion. The graphics arent THAT old and ugly, and for an RPG, and even generally, are pretty decent. Add the impressive details that were and can be given to them, and in my opinion, the game looks *good*. Not great, but *good*. With the addition of MEmod's enhancement, the game can, and hopefully WILL, look very *good*.

Compare the screenshots to these screenshots, and again consider they are screenshots, and not at real game-like quality.

Neverwinter Nights:
http://www.travel.ag.ru/ds/nwnhou/2.jpg
http://www.travel.ag.ru/ds/nwnhou/3.jpg

The graphics are not bad, the effects are good, and it looks generally better at top-view. But the details, at least in my opinion, are boring, and the sceneries are not impressive at all. The game by itself is good, but I think it looks boring.

The Temple of Elemental Evil:
http://www.game-revolution.com/previews/sc...ntal_evil1b.jpg
http://www.realms.ru/images/toee/reviews/001/08.jpg

The graphics are good, the effects are good, the game is relatively new, and generally looks better graphic-wise because of top-view. But again, everything is too far, and nothing really impressed my eyes when I played it myself. The sceneries are more detailed than NWN, but not as impressive as Morrowind's.

Compared to such RPG games, Morrowind is much more impressive. Not because of better graphics, but because the sceneries are impressive, the view is first-person (which makes everything much more impressive), the details are plenty, and the graphics are themselves not so bad.
Sure, I will agree a game like KoToR, which is an RPG, looks a lot better than morrowind, and the third-person view makes it no less impressive, and has plenty of detailed sceneries, but consider the fact Morrowind IS OLD.
Consider that Morrowind is old, not ancient but old, consider its an RPG, consider how impressive the game can look, and everything else I mentioned - and you might come to the conclusion (I know I did), that for an old game, for an RPG game, for a free-action game (Working on these is much more difficult than linear games, and it will hurt graphical quality) the game looks good even at this time.
Add MEmod graphical improvements, and I think you will realize that while Morrowind still looks pretty good, MEmod will look even better.

MEmod can come in 1 year, it can come in 2 years - games like FPS games, strategy, simluation, etc. may and probably will improve graphic-wise - RPGs wont do such a thing so much, and MEmods improvements will also bring Morrowind a few steps forward graphic-wise. So I believe, with all that, MEmod will look good.

When I say "good", I am only guessing how it will look, since I cant really tell what will come in 1-2 years. I dont mean it will match up to Half-Life 2, but I do mean it will not be totaly horrible compared the such games - as it's not now, in my opinion.

The thing about 3D games is that the graphics get old quickly, or perhaps I should say the graphics improve very quickly. Once graphics improve, older games look bad. That is unlike hand-drawn games, which always keep a reltively good graphic quality, maybe because of the simple fact they are not made anymore, so there is nothing to compare.
Still, I will admit that only because of MEmod's improvements, only because the MEmod is about Tolkien's beautiful world, and only because it's an RPG - I will gladly play the mod.
Frankly, if Morrowind was a pure action game, with it's current graphics, I wouldnt play it in 1-2 years, only *maybe* for a ME mod. But it's not an action game, graphics are not looking that bad, and dont matter since its an RPG.

Again, I wish to remark that Action games are mostly about the better graphics.
RPG games are not. Morrowind, and MEmod, *are* RPGs.

I think the only RPG you can compare graphically with Morrowind is Gothic. So here some Screenshots:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...s.html?page=139

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...s.html?page=136

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...s.html?page=134

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic/scre...ns.html?page=95

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic/scre...ns.html?page=94

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic/scre...ns.html?page=80

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic/scre...ns.html?page=64

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...s.html?page=126

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...s.html?page=117

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...ns.html?page=73

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...ns.html?page=51

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...ns.html?page=38

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...ns.html?page=35

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...ns.html?page=11

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...s.html?page=122

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...s.html?page=113

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...ns.html?page=99

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/scr...ns.html?page=93

Indeed! One of the best rpg of our time.

Yes, true. In the Gothic-Forums they are debating which game is better, but most say that Gothic is far better, because of its living world and characters. Most Gothic-players think that Morrowind is just to dull and boring, while Gothic is more detailed. I personally think that both games are about the same good.

*Looks ahead at the many rocks of middle earth to be designed*

*shudder*

Well heres my thoughts about graphics in RPGs. If you have played ADOM, you know that it has very crappy graphics. But they work. You can't think that a green 'O' would be anything else than an orc, can't you?

By the way, what's the matter with you guys. You haven't said anything about goats or pies in this topic.

Here's the way I see it:

Morrowinds graphics may be dated (although I've never seen anything that's dated them) but MEMod must be created and it is being created in TESCS.

If the team were to change the engine then they would lose their progress in MeMod and have to start over. Basically, with a project the size of MEMod it would be impossible to release it with graphics comparable to the graphics of other games released at the same time. If they worried about the graphics then they would constantly be updating their system and it would never be released. If they switch to a newer system it will push the release date back furthur, completely contradicting the change of system because the graphics would be just as out-of-date as they would be for the original system at the original release time.

well, technically we'd still have the original art assets, and the models in raw formats, but, yes, it would be a hellish delay to change format.

Suzerain

yeah don't turn MEMod into duke nukem forever..i've been waiting 7 years for that bloody game

What exactly do you mean by not NWN way? Do you mean first person? Check out www.dungeonlords.com. It looks pretty cool.

The 3th person system of Never Winter Night with the mouse clicks to move.

I want a game like gothic and Morrowind, but newer and with better graphics ^^.

Hope I've explained it better.

You should definitely check out dungeon lords then...it looks a lot to me like Gothic 2 with multiplayer. It's a totaly open ended RPG (not sure if Gothic is or not). I think it looks pretty awesome. As long as it comes with a good set of modding tools, I think this game will be very fun.

I think everyone is getting me wrong - I am completely glad that the MEMod is being made using the MW engine. AS I said before, graphics don't count for much. The pictures I posted were just in response to someone's post.

Oh, and: Go MEMod.

Oh, I'm glad too. I just went OT

I've seperated the whole Goth part of the thread into the Off-Topic Forum because it has absolutely nothing to do with MEMod.

That makes sense.

Is think topic still active?? Lol.

yeah graphics doesnt make a game one of my favorite RPG's was the Summoner...the graphics wernt great but i thought it was one of the best story lines in a game that ive played

Lol! My favorite game of all time is a text-based game. I've played it since '97, and I still play it too.

http://www.MateriaMagica.com


I would really like to close this thread. The title has so little meaning to the current conversation. If possible, please start your new thoughts with a new topic.

I got the secret summoner video on my computer. It was on my Local BBS. It's so funny, those three guys and the huge alien playing DND.