At the moment, all the computers in this house share a TNT2 between them since my Geforce 4 Ti 4200 died again (ie, I confiscated the TNT2 while the Geforce has been sent back to the shop under warranty). I'm not looking to update the Geforce just yet - it still has another year and a half of warranty on it, but for a cheap card to upgrade the old computer.

I don't want to spend a lot on it, but I think the kids would appreciate something a bit better than a TNT2 (though at least that card is now several years old and has never malfunctioned.....).

So, my question is, what's the best bargain card out there?


Within budget & available locally are:

GeForce Galaxy MX 4000 128Mb

Geforce 4 MX 440 64Mb Chaintech

ATi Radeon Sapphire PCi 64Mb

ATi Radeon Xpertvision 9200LE 128Mb


Geforce 4 MX 440 128Mb

Mentor Geforce 4 128Mb FX5200 TD Dvi

128Mb DDR ATi Radeon 9200 SE


Do any of these cards support pixel shading? I've had a look at the nvidia website, but unfortunately the information given there wasn't in simple enough terms...


Which one of those cards would be a good buy for a cheap upgrade?

I would probably prefer nvidia just because the nvidia drivers are already on the systems

Whereever you see "MX" next to a GeForce card....shudder, then go "screw that"

They're not gaming cards, they're graphic development cards (and sucky ones at that).

Can't really help you with old cards though, sorry.

I know it's not on your list but I personally would go for ATI's Radeon 9600 pro... it's not too expensive and it runs great....

What processor do you have? It might be a better idea to upgrade that first. My current processor is actually holding my videocard's power back! Processors make more of a difference in quality of gaming than videocards. Upgrade that first, then see if you need a new videocard. By that time, ATI will have released a videocard and prices will drop a lot on the older models.

quick tip: newegg.com rules!!

umm..... I don't want to spend a lot of money on the old computer, and as I said, I'm not planning on upgrading mine yet.


Upgrading the old computer would involve

- new motherboard
- new processor
- bigger hard drive
- more RAM

as well as a new graphics card


Which is why I decided to get a new computer last year instead, and passed the old one down to the kids



So the MX cards are no use? damn.... that seems to rule out most of what's within budget (around £40) :/

Is the FX 5200 any use?

FX 5200's are pretty good. if your looking for a gaming card, I would say that is your best option for price and purpose. What is your budget? You can usually find a good deal at newegg.com... I made an awesome computer with everything for just over $600!! I still use that computer today!

SOYO Motherboard (old chipset)
AMD 2600+ processor
ATI Radeon 9600pro
80 GB hard drive
ATX case
256MB 2700 RAM

It works great...

come to think of it, it's time to upgrade!! newegg.com here i come!!

Lol, the Geforce 4 was the only component I ever bought online - everything else was purchased from local shops. And since this is now the second time the Geforce has been returned to the shop I'm getting a bit fed up with having to package it and post it every few months.

I've got a couple of good local computer stores nearby which offer excellent service, so I'd rather buy any further components there.


Does anyone know if the FX 5200 supports pixel shading?

Can't speak for the FX cards Theta, but it looks like tyjet isn't getting the net on your budget. newegg.com is an American distributer...I normally order my PC components from dabs.com or novatech.co.uk - both are priced much better than any local shops - and I know Dabs deliver next day if ordered before something like 1pm.

What processor has your old PC got, Theta? Anything above about 1.2Ghz and the GFX is next on the upgrade list. Else you may want to look into a new mobo, processor AND gfx card, since only the recent components can deal with pixel shading.

i heard mention of the ATI Radeon 9600 pro, the thing is the 9600 se is less expensive and the performance drop is bairly noticable. i got a 9600se for $70 and it came with Rainbow6 3 Raven Sheild. I cant remeber the exact numbers but the core and mem clocks arn't that far off yet the price is. Thats my advice. If your good with GeForce then the 9600 se rates between the 5700 and the 5800.

http://dabs.com/uk/channels/components/gra...?quicklinx=30RM - for your reference Theta.

If you were going to go with a GeForce, I'd go with the Mentor Geforce 128Mb FX5200 TD Dvi, as, in that list, it's the least likely to require upgrading from in the future. The best one there from the ATI range is probably the 128Mb DDR ATi Radeon 9200 SE, but if you could stretch your budget a little, I would definately recommend going for something with a little bit more oomph, such as a GeForce FX 5600 or Radeon 9600, as I think they give a good compromise between performance and price (unless, of course, you are a complete nut about being able to run absolutely everything on max settings, in which case, mortgage your house and buy a GeForce 6800 or a Radeon X800 when they hit the shelves ).

well about the max settings, the 9600se can run even Unreal Tourniment 2004 with all settings at max. The only downside to radeon in my usage si that battlefeild doesn;t like it and yu ahve to stick to medium settings. thats about it.

We're not talking about maximal gaming experiences for this card - it's a cheap upgrade from a TNT2 I'm looking for. I mean, it's going into a computer with a 600MHz processor!

*litters thread with ATi subliminal messages*

"ATi is good. The Nvidia fairy seems to agree."

I'd go with the 9200. They are really good cards for the price - and if you want to, they're quiet, cold and small enough to use to run a MP3/CD/DVD player for the lounge room.

I use one of them for that and it works great.

I guess it's time to back up the said things with a few benchmarking results. I've taken this from a gaming mag that came out in March '04, so it isn't too old. They've run three benchmarks with Far Cry, UT 2k3 and Elite Force 2. It might be worth mentioning that except the GeForce FX 5200, none of the chips mentioned above does even appear in those benchmarks. The results for the FX 5200 are:

Far Cry: 18 fps (1024x768, 32 bit)
Far Cry: 12 fps (1280x1024, 32 bit)
UT 2k3: 52.8 fps (1024x768, 32 bit)
UT 2k3: 36.5 fps (1024x768, 2x Anit-Aliasing, 4:1 Anisotropic Filter)
Elite Force 2: 46.3 (1024x768, 32 bit)
Elite Force 2: 23 (1024x768, 32 bit, 2x AA, 4:1 AF)

For the other hardware they used more or less the best stuff available so that the results depended only on the graphics card.

As can be seen, the FX 5200 has quite decent performance, the significant drop in case of Far Cry can be blamed on its DirectX 9 support (IIRC) - it calculates all the nifty new effects although its performance actually does not suffice to do that. Unfortunately, not every game is like Morrowind and allows you to turn shader effects off. AFAIK both performance and the performance drop in case of cards that support DirectX 8/9 is even worse with the other models.

If you are looking for something reasonably good but inexpensive I would look perhaps to the used market, either local or online. The one computer shop in town here routinely strips older (trade-ins, lightning damage, etc.) computers of their working and then they sell those components individually. Why go for this year’s mid-range card when you could get a better performing card (last year’s top-o-the-line model) for the same coin?

From that perspective, a nVidia geForce 4 TI 4600 would likely fit the bill.

Also, for multiple brands of cards using the same chipset (i.e. an Asus Radeon 9600 vs. a Sapphire 9600) the main difference is going to be in extra features, not performance. In that case you may want to look at an OEM card (white-box) if you do not need all the extra software and the like. By buying OEM myself in the past (particularly CPUs and video cards) I was able to save quite a bit of money. If you can buy a new OEM Radeon 9600 for the same price as a retail 9200, why not? The only caveat I have seen with purchasing OEM is that the products usually do not carry as long of a warranty. It is not that they are in any way inferior (they are identical in every way to the retail product), but the OEM companies presume the computer system manufacturer will provide the warranty.

There are my two cents: Used or OEM.

Hope it helps.

p.s.
I have a Voodoo 5 5500 (64MB, 2 VPU, AGP) you can have if you want it... Or even a very rare Voodoo 5 6500 (128MB, 4 VPU, AGP, Ext. power supply)... but that will cost you

Theta, I'm right in thinking you're British? If so, do you have a Maplins near you? If so, you might want to have a look at their website, as the one near me generally has no problem ordering something in if they don't have it in store. The reason I mention this is that, on their website, they have a 256MB version of a GeForce FX 5200 for £79.99, which is pretty cheap.

She's not British ... she's Scottish. You're only British if you're English, everyone else simply imitates

Anyway...you may want to read this telling review (http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/VGA/Inno3D_FX5200/) about the FX 5200.

GeForce 6800.........


That makes my GeForce FX 5950 Ultra look like a dodo bird!

I'll second the recomendation on the ATI 9200 or the GeForce FX 5200, both are solid cards. I run PNY's (FX 5600 and FX 5950U) on both my machines and they're rock solid...PNY also has a really good warranty.

Thanks for all the advice

I've just bought and installed the Geforce FX 5200 - and judging by the noises coming from the attic 'Warcraft' seems to run just fine

Wait, you let your kids play the abomination that is Warcraft? Stick them on Starcraft or Diablo by all means, but not Warcraft you fool!

*Dark0ne feels the need to update the unmentionables*

yes, totally backing up darkone here...

Have them play Starcraft!! SO MUCH BETTER!!! NOT Warcraft!! Diablo 2 is good too just don't play Warcraft... for the love of all that is holy... don't... play... it...

I'm not playing it.

And they've got Diablo II

Well use your parental force, or get your human/sheep hybrid husband to force it upon them!