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ObsidianKnight
I've recently started hating Microsoft. Not Bill Gates, mind you, but Microsoft itself. Here are my reasons.

1. XBox. So many computer games were bought out, and rescheduled for release to the XBox. As a result, these awesome computer games (Halo, Knights of the Old Republic, etc), became ports... to the PC. So, these games were optimized for gameplay on the XBox. Which means, they run very poorly on the PC. Halo is a dream on the XBox.... but a system killer on the PC.

2. Windows. Windows is the MOST. SHODDY. PROGRAMMING. EVER! XP was built for convenience, not security. SO, it's incredibly easy for some 1337 h@XX0r to make a virus/worm/trojan horse/spyware/etc for XP. If you haven't, read the virus encyclopedias for your anti-virus software. New viruses are coming out more than daily. And... you can't get rid of them! System restore will resurrect them! These bugs get a free ride on "Essential applications", preventing you from disabling them. [sarcasm] All in the name of convenience! God bless you! [/sarcasm]

Ok, I'm bitter. I just got hit with one of the latest worms, and i've been swearing at my computer for the last two days. Finally, I managed to get the da**ed thing "quarantined", and then I can finally delete the lil' *******.

But seriously. Is convenient AND secure too much to ask from Microsoft?
cmac
Ahh...a good old rant-and-rave thread.

I concede most of your points but you neglect to note the finer aspects of Windows:

-Upgradeable (as opposed to the dreaded Macs)
-Room for customization
-Many, many options
-Has many more games than supported by any other platform.

As for the worms/viruses/trojans: GET KERIO! Kerio personal Firewall, combined with the wrath of Webroot Spy Sweeper is nearly guaranteed to stop most problems.

Give Microsoft a little credit.
valdir
Erm... Knight of the Old Republic kicked ass anyway, regardless of system. And if my sources are correct, there are going to be mod tools for the PC version of KOTOR. Read: NOT the Xbox version. smile.gif

Also, who knows what we'd be using without Windows. Personally, I'm thinking of moving to Macs, which are MUCH better than PCs when it comes to power, but I'm a little nervous of not being able to easily get games....

-val
vandorssen
Join the club... However, the thing with the XBox is a moot point... The XBox is a WIntel PC; just one with a couple of modifications. Microsoft issued their "Trustworthy" computing initiative two or three years ago, and the result has been, so far, the delay of Longhorn (the next "major" version of Windows) until at least 2007, and more than likely even longer than that. I personally am indifferent to Windows; Windows 98, IMHO, was the best version to date, bringing a very nice balance of stability and convenience that has yet to be matched in the Microsoft world.

However, look at the alternatives:

-Linux/Unix is still geared more towards corporate environments, and is not a very user friendly OS for the “average” user… that is except OS X for Macintosh (built on BSD Unix).
-Macintosh (Classic Mac OS and Mac OS X) is obscured by the stigma of being an overpriced BMW of the computer world; very cool but you “wouldn’t buy one unless you won the lottery”. Long the domain of print houses and graphic designers, the only major market for Apple Macintosh computers has been schools. And the Mac is upgradeable... My G5 has PCI-X slots, AGP8x slot, USB 2.0, Firewire 800, SATA, and a SCSI Ultra 320 card.
-Sun has struck a deal with Walmart to sell Sun Desktop PCs, but who here has ever even seen Solaris or a Java OS, much less used it?
-Then there are the nonstarters OS/2 Warp, BeOS, Amiga, NeXT Step, Copland, and a thousand others (well, not really). The legacy of these still live on in today’s “popular” operating systems, but you would likely never use them.

Windows is a necessary evil. That is until Apple suddenly jumps to 15% or more of the consumer market share, or Linux/Unix truly dominates the server market. Only when they have true competition, will Microsoft have real reason to improve its products.
Dark0ne
I have no qualms with Windows...got everything locked up like Fort Knox (cliche, I know), I've never had a virus on my new system (had it for 18 months) and never had any problems. It plays my games, thats all I care about. KOTOR played amazingly on my 1.73Ghz, 1GB RAM, GeForce 4 Ti4200 system, no problems at all. Halo also plays like a dream.

I will admit, however, that Linux is the way to go in terms of servers - their kernels are the best and most efficient, and the results of attacks are much less devastating (who hacks Linux, unless its SCO run anyway?).

So, in conclusion...

Windows > Linux for Home computing
Linux > Windows for Servers
m_gobes
I'll second Darkone

as long as you aren't running some large corporation on your PC just flush out viruses and problems once or twice a week *note* This can be done while you sleep just schedual it in your virus scan.
Faust_87
QUOTE

1. XBox. So many computer games were bought out, and rescheduled for release to the XBox. As a result, these awesome computer games (Halo, Knights of the Old Republic, etc), became ports... to the PC. So, these games were optimized for gameplay on the XBox. Which means, they run very poorly on the PC. Halo is a dream on the XBox.... but a system killer on the PC.


Actually, if you have a decent computer, halo kicks ass on PC compaired to Xbox, plus you get more weapons...

White Wolf
I can't really name a clearly better OS than Windows, but, then again, it's more or less a case of Windows or Windows as far as OSs are concerned. Yes, there is Linux et al, but that is 5% or so of the market. In my opinion, you can't really answer the question 'Is Windows actually any good?' until you get some proper competition, and Microsoft are in the position to strangle any competition before it even really starts, or, at the very least, severely limit it.

As to the Xbox, it is definately the most powerful console on the market, but that is really down to the fact it is heavily based on PC technology. Not quite a PC in a box, but close. As to Bill Gates waving his big fat chequebook about, I'm in two minds about it. On the one hand, it did delay the PC releases, but on the other hand, it did give them a run-through in preparation for the PC releases. As to PC Halo and KOTOR, I found that they ran fine on my wee beastie (and were better too tongue.gif ).
Shakkara
Apparantly Wine can run almost any windows game. And Mandrake 10 seems to have lots of useful tools in it, like programming stuff for almost every language.

Going to try those soon. Until then, I'm on 98SE. Even my servers... Never had any trouble/virusses.
Dark0ne
QUOTE
Apparantly Wine can run almost any windows game.


Windows can run every Windows game wink.gif
Shakkara
QUOTE (Dark0ne @ May 5 2004, 01:00 PM)
QUOTE
Apparantly Wine can run almost any windows game.


Windows can run every Windows game wink.gif

Except when you use windows 3.x, 95, 98FE, ME, NT, 2000, or XP.

Gotta love M$'s definition of compatibility.
ImmortalSnafu
QUOTE (cmac @ May 4 2004, 01:19 AM)
Ahh...a good old rant-and-rave thread.

I concede most of your points but you neglect to note the finer aspects of Windows:

-Upgradeable (as opposed to the dreaded Macs)
-Room for customization
-Many, many options
-Has many more games than supported by any other platform.

As for the worms/viruses/trojans: GET KERIO! Kerio personal Firewall, combined with the wrath of Webroot Spy Sweeper is nearly guaranteed to stop most problems.

Give Microsoft a little credit.

QUOTE
-Upgradeable (as opposed to the dreaded Macs)


Uhhh....no

Almost nothing in my Mac box is original. I've upgraded the Video Card, RAM, both cd drives, 4 hard drives, 2 new fans, etc etc. Only the original processors are there.

QUOTE
-Room for customization


*sigh*

QUOTE
-Many, many options


I agree, but many options are silly if you only need one. I only need to use certain programs on my Mac and I'm rather content without thousands of redundant software packages clogging up my platform. Choices are good, when the only choice is the best choice it really doesn't matter.

QUOTE
-Has many more games than supported by any other platform.


Yes....Yo've got me here. Windows dominates the gaming industry (suprise!). But most of the really good games (Deus Ex, Battlefield 1942, Baldur's Gate, etc) end up on Mac or Linux.

QUOTE
Give Microsoft a little credit.


No wink.gif

------------------------------
You might want to consider some of the Apple's advantages...

1) No viruses, worms, spyware- That's right NONE. no worrying about any of those crazy security threats

2) Reliability- I've had my mac for 10 months and it's crashed once....when I was rendering a Maya scene while playing Halo. Bad idea no matter what platform you're on.

3) Community- Since Apple only holds 5% of the market...the community for macs are very close knit.

4) They look purty- You can't say with a straight face that macs aren't really cool looking...you just can't.


Oh boy! I can't wait to get flamed... biggrin.gif
Marxist ßastard
QUOTE
The Great Uninformed One:

No viruses, worms, spyware- That's right NONE. no worrying about any of those crazy security threats


I just felt I had to respond to this -- Apple does have a good record of patching security vulnerabilities (I'm not saying that the average Mac user knows what a patch is, however), but no OS is completely secure -- it's ridiculous to say there are absolutely no exploits or malware oppurtunities. Macs in general are famous for their weak encryption, which allows password cracking with minimal effort. There are also numerous exploits out for more specific threats -- the first of these that comes to mind is the exploit for Directory Services, which allows anyone to gain root access and complete control over an affected machine. It has also been proven that making a trojan that targets Macs is quite possible -- an executable containing malicious code can be made to look and act exactly like any number of media files when viewed by a Mac. This has been proven by the MP3Concept example trojan.

Now without further ado...

user posted image
ImmortalSnafu
QUOTE
The Great Uninformed One:


I hate you too...wink.gif

QUOTE
I just felt I had to respond to this


biggrin.gif

QUOTE
it's ridiculous to say there are absolutely no exploits or malware oppurtunities


Agreed. That was stupid of me to say.

QUOTE
This has been proven by the MP3Concept example trojan.


The point is that these trojans, exploits , etc are almost never used maliciously. On another note, the whole MP3 trojan was silly...

QUOTE
the first of these that comes to mind is the exploit for Directory Services, which allows anyone to gain root access and complete control over an affected machine. It has also been proven that making a trojan that targets Macs is quite possible


The user must first manually enable the root account for this exploit to work..99% of users would never touch the command line to enable the root account and thus the exploit doesn't affect them (mac users aren't 1337...). The few who do enable it are usually able to secure the computer in other ways.
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