NOTE: The purpose of this essay is merely to spread the truth, and to convince others to be more skeptical and open-minded. All of this was written by me and represents what I believe in.


Would you vote for a man who uses people's ignorance to deceive them? Half of our nation would. Senator Obama and his entire liberal campaign represent ignorance. Human values never change. Many people want to be a part of something so bad that they would believe anything they're told. Obama's speeches have inspired many people in a time of stress... this is exactly what Hitler did.


Let's start with a few points of why people like Senator Obama. The number one reason is obvious, his charisma. His speeches on "Hope and Change" inspire the masses of people who know nothing about politics. The 2nd reason is that he's black. Obviously the Democrats nominated him to target the black community, who barely voted before in the first place. This makes people like how he's different, which proves nothing about if he's a good politician or not. Not to mention his extreme lack of experience. 3 years in the Senate? Give me a break, that's less time than high school. He hardly understands how things work. I am willing to admit, Senator Obama is a great speaker. His words are powerful and inspiring, but he doesn't talk about politics. He talks about what the people want to hear. Ignorant people who don't understand the border between Hollywood and reality. These people don't understand that Senator Obama believes that there is a simple solution to every problem in America. Jesus, it's like I'm watching Head of State again. Listen to me when I say this, and this is the most important part of my argument, if there was an obvious solution to all our problems, the U.S. would would already be a perfect country. Now, the third reason why people support Obama is that he claims to represent the people. Hold on, a second. From what I've seen, the majority of Democrats I've talked to, probably 9 out of ten times they believe that the government doesn't care about the people. Many people actually believe that the majority of politicians don't care about our nation... how does that make any sense? If the majority of our politicians were corrupt, we would be Mexico. The last time I checked, we were not Mexico.


I'm guessing at this point that you would tell me that he's taxing the rich and giving money to the poor. Think about this. Did you know the top 20% income families in our nation pay 80% of our taxes already? That leaves 80% of the national population to pay 20% of our taxes. Mr. Obama wants to take more money from the CEOs, the Managers, and all the other bosses. What people fail to realize is that it WILL affect them. Try to think if you were a CEO, from a logical business perspective. If you are getting taxed exceptionally, and are losing a lot of the extra money you have, you won't have enough money to pay all your employees. A lot of people will get laid off. A lot of people will get pay DECREASES. Plus, most of the people who are bitching and wanting tax cuts are barely paying any taxes in the first place from various benefits (Salary, Children, EVEN RACE). McCain's economic plan involves saving money, rather than spending ridiculous amounts. Senator Obama appears to forget that our nation is in severe debt. Wouldn't borrowing, printing, and taxing more money for his excessive spending be bad for our economy? The answer is obvious. Of course it will.


This section is to all the black people blaming "the government" for all your problems, the ones who claim they aren't given any opportunities in life. What you fail to realize is that our nation already has many charities for the poor, especially African Americans. Has anyone EVER HEARD of the United Negro College Fund? There you go, right there. Work hard in school, and they will pay for your tuition, BECAUSE OF YOUR RACE. Also, all colleges are more likely to accept you if you are black or latino. You really think this nation doesn't care about you, but all you have to do is try JUST AS HARD as anyone else, and the U.S. will support you because you are poor. I'm so tired of people bitching and moaning about their situation, when the truth is that they're too lazy to get out there and make something of themselves. I'm so tired of people saying "lol we shud totally blaem jorge bush lol". What people fail to realize is that the president is not the king of the United States. Most of the problems of our country are not his fault. If you're looking for someone to blame, at least know who has the most power. The legislative branch, which is controlled by Democrats, has the most power in this country by far. If these people suck at running the country so bad, maybe the legislative branch should be run by another party (Republican).


Now lets move on to Obama's support of a free healthcare system. Have you ever been to Canada? It takes six months or more to get an operation for any kind of non lethal injury. If you break a leg, expect to be in a wheelchair 6 months minimum before your operation. If you think I'm lying, let me explain how it works. Even though the system is called "free" healthcare, all the money has to come from somewhere. To get the money to pay for the healthcare, the government greatly increases taxes. This means that a perfectly healthy poor man will be paying for a sick rich man's healthcare, even though the poor man doesn't need medical care. Does that seem right to you? When the government controls healthcare the doctors will get paid a lot less. That means a lot less people will want to be doctors. When there are less doctors, the wait gets exponentially longer. The lower wages also mean a strong decrease in performance. Doctor's won't be happy with their career if they don't get paid enough. It will be much harder to find a good doctor, not to mention how long it will take to even get an appointment. Now, when I say that in Canada it takes 6 months to get surgery, imagine how bad it will be here. I can guarantee you there are a HELL of a lot more people in the U.S. than in Canada. If we adopted the free healthcare system, I wouldn't be surprised if your father had to wait a few years to get his back fixed. So that means your dad would walk around for years, and have to go to work to feed your family with a bad back.


Now let's discuss a big elephant in the room of politics. The War in Iraq. Senator Obama wants to immediately pull all of our soldiers. Do you know why we keep our soldiers in Iraq? 2 reasons. 1st reason: If we withdrew our soldiers, chaos would immediately resurface in Iraq and the factions will begin fighting again. This will diminish all hope of Democracy for their country. 2nd Reason: Yes, the Iraq government wants our soldiers there to help them keep their government stable. When we become friends with Iraq, they will sell us oil. I'm so sick of people who say we're in Iraq to "Steal their Oil". Do you know why our gas prices are so high? Well, if you understood the concept of supply and demand, you would know that we need more oil.

If we buy land to drill from Iraq, that puts money in their economy, which helps them. It's called a mutual transaction. Besides, look at our country compared to theirs? Who is going to use the oil? If Iraq needed the oil, they would have drilled it out by now.


Senator Obama supports raising the gas prices for this reason: If gas prices are high, people will switch to fuel efficient cars. One problem. Cars are expensive. Especially hybrids. How is the common man supposed to save up to buy a fuel efficient car if the gas prices are draining his extra money? Many people are for switching to alternative energy; I am as well. The problem is that nothing happens overnight. Switching to a different primary source of energy takes decades, at least. Our country has been working on finding alternative energy resources for a long time, it just takes time. We can't just give up oil and wait for the new one. Obama and his liberal bandwagon want change now, but they don't realize that nothing works that way. Nothing is that simple.


Now let's talk about some of Obama's supporters around the world. The Iranian government's public speaker publicly supports Obama. Fidel Castro also publicly stated that he supports Obama. There are many citizens in the U.S. that threaten with riots and violence if he isn't elected. Doesn't anyone find that a little scary? Iran and Cuba? The reason why they support him is because they know he will be a weak leader. When he's gonna have to take military action as Commander In Chief, he won't do it. They know this. I'm not calling Obama a "terrorist", that would be ignorant. I am saying, however, that some very bad people support him, because they know he will be a weak leader.


Obama has gathered many blind Americans and has led them in a liberal campaign of ignorance. All I ask is not to believe everything you're told. The art of Democracy is thinking independently, together. We must all have our own perspective on politics if we are to make our country any better. America was not created independent as a nation of followers. I'm not encouraging rebellion, because that is even worse for our country. All I encourage is to know the facts on multiple sides of the issue, because there is never a simple answer for anything. The only way to make America better is if we all know what's best for our country. Leeching free handouts out of the government is not the solution. The only way to improve our economy is with hard work, and smart financial management of the people as well as the banks. Be a responsible American, work hard, and don't take loans you can't pay back. It's not the government's job to compensate you for your screwups. If you truly believe that America is a bad country, then you might as well move to France like all the other pussies...



Written by Jared Beale

If that's how he's getting elected, though I think you're completely wrong on all counts, than thank God, because the dolts also let Bush be president for 8 years.

I'm quite sure I didn't vote for him because he's black, and I'm not misled, I'm extremely politically informed and I plan a law career of my own. Your dissertation just shows your own ignorance. I have no experience at all and I would have been a better president than Bush, I'm quite certain of that. What experience did Lincoln have? What experience did Washington have? Do you know any history, or do you think Reagan was a great president? How do you know what people understand? I listen to Washington Journal on C-Span every morning and the callers on the right parrot the same tired bs every day, that they don't know anything about Obama. Well, all you have to do is some very little research to find out.

Oh you did not bring up Mexico. That's your argument?


Actually my husband can testify that most of Barack's plans sound like things I've been saying for years. I'm a political junkie, it's my passion. Some things are quite clear, but the problem is that we are ingrained in a lifestyle here. We accept too many things as too hard to change, we profess things on one hand, like belief in a free market, but we haven't practiced free market economics for at least 20 years. We've been bailing out big corporations for a hundred years in fact, but I remember Chrysler, Lockheed and Neil Bush's S&L fiasco. That's not a free market, a free market lets companies die when they are mismanaged, no longer viable, or obsolete.

About taxes, no. You are absolutely 100% mistaken. Site your facts and statistics, bud. I know better. I actually read books, with small letters and no pictures.

I own a small business, with my husband, and there are many reasons why we feel that Obama's plan will benefit us, it will benefit me, as a student, as well.

Beyond that my dad and brothers own a very succesful farm operation, I was raised republican, I voted for Reagan twice, but even my dad is voting for Barack Obama this year (and everyone of my eligible family members -- I'm one of 7 and have over 30 nieces, nephews and grands now.) To give you an idea, they spend $10000 a month on electricity. I didn't stutter.

It's fair to pay taxes when you "tax" the infrastructure more than the average person. What we are saying is, my family makes a profit using the resources that we are blessed to have here in America, and it is just and fair to pay more taxes for the privilege of using up those resources that we turn a profit on. It's not like it's a great deal more than we're already paying, actually, it's a reasonable compromise.

I've always felt that if you don't like paying for the privilege of living and benefiting from living in America, then let me show you the door.

Fear mongers like you bother me. And what's with this "even race"? I see your true colors, you're one of those who doesn't understand that we're only as strong as the least among us. The nation has to be strong as a whole, we have to have a decent education system that would teach people like you to think critically so that they can stop getting emotional and allowing their own fears to rule their choices.

Believe me, as a great president once said, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself", and as a smart dude said once upon a time, "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." He also said they had fashioned us "a republic if you can keep it". Well it's slipping away into a corporate fascism and you would recognize that if only you had a sufficient education. We are now 18th in the world in education and it's opinions like yours that bear witness to that sad fact.

Saving our republic demands sacrificing your own selfish greed and standing up to your own fears.

God Bless Barack Obama.

Your argument is logical, and although I disagree with you, I will respect your support for Senator Obama. However, many people I know who support him are ignorant. Regardless if he's a good politician or not, is it really fair? Obviously his tactics are to target those who never cared about voting in the first place, and don't know politics. Also, one of the main points in my essay is that there are no simple solutions for everything. Claiming you know more than me and trying to insult my intelligence is just a cheap shot at my argument. And sure, there are ignorant republicans, but there are so many more ignorant liberal it isn't even fair (media, anyone?).

On your argument about Mexico, oh wait a second, that's just a picture. I have seen the Mexican government butchered (metaphorically) many times by our government, in terms of what we think of their corruption.

On your feelings of taxes. I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have to pay extra for freedom if you were BORN here. Also, I'm fine with the current taxings, I just don't think that the rich should be taxed any more. I don't think that the people who earn more money should be punished by giving back a higher percentage. How is that fair? It's not.

On the subject of race, I believe all races should be treated equally. I do not believe white people or black people should be treated better than one another. I fully support charities that help the poor, but I don't understand the ones that only help the poor if they're black.

When you say you could be a better president than Bush, I almost laughed. Sure, he wasn't our greatest president. What some people don't realize is that it's a hard job. Plus you and I don't know half of what goes on behind the scenes. Everything in politics is done for a reason.

Also, using fallacies such as ad hominem to attack my intelligence and education doesn't prove your point. Accusing me of being greedy shows that you judge me without knowing anything about me. At this point, you'd probably fire back at me saying that I judged Obama. I never said he's a bad person, I believe all the candidates want to make America a better place. If most politicians didn't care about the benefit of America, our nation would be very different. Sure, I believe that he deceives the ignorant, but that's part of every politician's job. On the other hand, I do believe that that is his main strategy, in contrast to other politicians.

All in all, if Obama becomes president, which is likely, I won't bitch and moan. The best I can do as a good American is support what he does, and do my part to help my country. I would advise that you do the same for McCain. I'm sure there's multiple ways to solve every issue, and while I don't agree with Obama's, I'll have no choice but to give them a chance if he's elected.

God Bless AMERICA

-Jared

To be perfectly honest, I planned to read your massive post. It was so confusing, however, I stopped after the first full paragraph.

Based on that, I can only make two statements:

1) I disagree with your belief that experience is always good.

2) There are many ignorant people on both sides of this election. To pretend any different is completely ignorant as well. Just because you know a few Democratic idiots doesn't mean that the intelligent voters are also idiots.

I absolutely agree that there are ignorant voters on both sides. However, this election especially, the majority are definitely on the Democratic side. Like I've brought up in the essay. Think about all the black people (no racist) who haven't even cared about voting in the past? They want him to win because he's black, so they'll vote.

I think it is evenly spread, mainly because I do not see many informed voters voting for the McCain ticket with Palin as the runningmate since McCain is old and not in the best health and Palin is...well...Dubya with lipstick.



I blame the media for that. During the Democratic primary, the media kept parroting "are we ready for a black president" and "are we ready for a women president," and look at how that primary turned out.

If we removed all the ignorant voters from the election, it is likely that we would have a 3rd party president since I do not see an informed voter voting for either McCain or Obama due to liking them, maybe because they are the lesser of two evils, but not because they like them.

On taxes:

people with more money use more resources, they drive more cars, they own more houses, they burn more fuel to heat and cool those houses which are statistically larger and harder to heat and cool thereby using more resources than other Americans.

Because of that, their fair share of taxes is higher. There are many other benefits to being wealthy, I know first hand. For example, when a middle-class person makes a mistake in their bank account they're encouraged to pay an exorbitant usury fee, which we will call a returned check fee, but is actually a short term loan based on past credit history. Usury used to be against the law, but no longer.

Now let me tell you what happens when you are wealthy and a check comes in to an account with non-sufficient funds: you get a call from the bank and they let you know there was a problem with the account and make an alternate arrangement.

Is that fair? You may think so, but I don't. It's quite possible the middle class person had resources to make an alternative arrangement as well, but that doesn't matter. Furthermore, the people who are in the most trouble and are most at risk financially, are the ones who tend to end up paying these fees most often because they have a hard time making ends meet.

What you don't seem to understand is that making the system fair so that all groups can grow their wealth, would not cost you anything.

Even though my father made his first million when I was in 8th grade, we were still part of the middle class. The actual redistribution of wealth is from the middle to the Elite, which is made up mostly of corporations. Corporations benefit from the buying power of the American people but they are notorious for not taking care of resources, and that's what they've been up to, using up the American middle-class wealth but not reinvesting in it, instead they'll move on like a plague of cicadas, probably to China who's rising middle class could soon eclipse the US and with it, eclipse the main source of our power in the world.

Now if you would kindly site reference and source for your stated belief about taxes, I will happily share mine.

Ok this is interesting. I don't support Obama for multiple reasons

1) abortion- A) I myself am a Catholic and so cannot, in anyway, support a man who would kill an unborn child.
B)At the moment of conception the baby has 46 chromosomes. Don't all animals have 46 also? Not to mention humans.
C)I know this gets old but, would you like it if I pulled the trigger and killed you? Probably not. Why take an unborn child and kill it?

I had a or rather WOULD have had a brother. He died in a miscarriage. I was able to hold the dish in my hand where his corpse was. I cried. And if you wouldn't then your not human and you can vulk yourself and slit your throat hang yourself or whatever I don't care just DON'T say it's right to kill unborn children.

2) taxes- I don't see how you can say that you want to be taxed more you made your money legitimately and should be entitled to it it shouldn't be given to people who don't work. Also what Obama doesn't tell you is that he won't reinstate the Bush tax cuts they will just go away in 2010

3) unemployment- unemployment is at the lowest it's been in many years a mere 5% (steadily rising around election time) and I DO blame Bush for that (I blame him for a good thing).


Everyone has been throwing the word Ignorant around well you know what? Your Ignorant I'm Ignorant and the world is Ignorant so oh well

Tax plan comparison of the two candidates.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obam...S-tax30.article

If questions of taxation are your primary concern in any election, you think with your current bank-account, you don't think of the future of your family, your country, and your planet.

Long view, people... gotta' take a LONG view.

Also, RE: Canadian healthcare -vs- American healthcare.
I serve in the US Army, and currently have waited a year (a full year, dangit) to get a simple dental repair done... an implant to replace a molar that was extracted at Ft. Sam Houston due to an abcess that ran on for 48 hours longer than it should have been allowed to... damned Drill Sergeant insisted I wait until Monday Morning to go on sick-call, because he didn't want to do the paperwork on the weekend to take me to the dental clinic.
Don't talk to me about speed-factors in American healthcare.

The World Health Organization has rated the healthcare systems of its' member nations. Canada? 30th. United States? 37th.

Source: http://www.who.int/whr/en/index.html

I agree with this man on both counts. The older a person is, the more set in their ways they are. Experience is always something to take into account, but sometimes you need someone malleable and willing to meet the needs of the people, not make the people meet his vision. As for ignorant people, both Democrats and Republicans rely on the ignorant votes to make their wins. The Republicans rely heavily on the hick vote, for example. (I'm a Missourian. I know some hicks.) Think about it; why is it that the coasts, the bustling areas of activity, tend to vote Democrat, while the rural areas, the uneducated and those who are not in touch with others, tend to vote Republican? The closer to a city, the more Democratic it gets. The fewer people in a county, the more Republican it gets.

I voted for Barack Obama because I agree with him on many of the issues, and he has a very statesmanlike poise. Both the greatest and the worst leaders have had great charisma; its not the charisma that's the problem, its just the lubricant for the true issues. I'm not willing to take a chance on McCain, who could go senile or die and leave Palin, the queen of inexperience, to run the nation. I admit, I rather like McCain. However, Obama is taking us in the direction I want, and he has Biden to provide some much needed experienced perspective to his choices.


Ironic. Some of the reasons I support Obama are as follows:

1) Abortion- Life isn't a pretty place, and we must choose the lesser of two evils. Sometimes, the birth of a child will only bring economic hardship to the parents and the child. If the parents don't want the child, the child will likely feel responsible for hurting them for the rest of its life, and that is something I wish to force on no one. Nature is a prime example that we do what is right, not prevent what is wrong. In nature, thousands of animals suffer horrible painful deaths daily. And yet, without this, life could not exist, and humanity could not exist either. It is a sacrifice for a broader perspective.

2) Taxes- Let's say there are 100,000 people, and each earns $100. If left as is, each can spend their $100 as they choose. However, if you tax $10 from each person for police funding, then each person gets $90 to spend freely and a $1,000,000 security force. Society is built so that we each contribute a little and we all gain a lot. The fortunate should be taxed so that the less fortunate can be more productive. It's like Robin Hood; steal from the rich, give to the poor. Except, it doesn't have to be illegal.

3) Unemployment- The economy has tanked over the past 8 years, slowly but surely, accelerating to a painful conclusion this year. I've seen people I know who've worked at a place for 30 years with nigh perfect records get fired for little to no reason. The last time we got out of a similar situation it was with FDR's new deal; a highly tax-and-spend policy. Having gone from a Clinton surplus to Bush's largest deficit in the history of the United States, I'm wary of anyone with similar policies to Bush. As for the recent improvement of unemployment percentages, it could also be attributed to the coming of a Democratic congress not long ago.

4) Palin- 'nuff said.

Moderator Edit:
This was just too off topic and a religious statement that it has been removed.

Sorry it makes your post in reply seem off, but it is not something that needs to detract from this topic.

Buddah



You just blew ANY credence you had, out of the water.

Please don't bother posting anymore.


Edit - Buddah is removing the post I quoted, nothing that *I* put, FYI. heh

Rather than passing judgment today on what may happen.....let us meet here in a couple of years and discuss what has transpired rather than speculate on what might be.

Just the thoughts of an old man.

Three things that should never be discussed in public.

1. your religious convictions. (I cannot change your faith)

2. your political views. [I cannot change your mind]

3. your significant other. {I cannot change your heart}

Buddah

always well put buddah

Politics should be over anyways, give Obama a chance like it or not he is there. As republican, I respect the office he now holds lets all fall in line try to unit this country. We can not have this devious, like we have right now. Only time will tell how, he comes out being a pres. and event lay in wait for him and this country. Great leaders are never born they are made by events. Events can also destroy a leader... In 2 years we get to choice new senate or keep the old, that will change how things will go for Obama.

It's amusing how many people think they made some monumental choice in selecting between mobster A and mobster B. I spurned them both and voted for petty thief B instead.

Though I will say, I was surprised at myself watching Obama's acceptance speech. I actually got misty-eyed when he talked about that old lady from Atlanta, just one generation removed from slavery, and all the changes she'd seen in her lifetime. Most likely Obama will be as awful as every other president we've had. The only difference will be who's deluding themselves for the next 4 years. But the fact that the American people, formerly intensely racist from North to South and Ocean to Ocean, could elect a black man to be their president is monumentally significant. The politics of it are irrelevant; the social aspects are earth-shaking--not as an accomplishment in itself, but as proof of the transformation that has occurred.

I've prayed for him, and honestly wish him well even though he's already begun to break his campaign promises (namely that he wouldn't have lobbyists in his administration). And his chief of staff (? Rahm) is like %&$! Cheney on meth. And I fear all those people who voted for him thinking he would immediately withdraw our troops from other people's countries will be deeply disappointed (or worse, they'll make excuses). He's promised to do just the opposite, after all. (Hopefully that will be another campaign promise he breaks.) But for the time being I'm going to assume he genuinely wants to do the right thing and improve peoples' lives. He'll fail--what else can you expect from someone who fought for the Billionaires' Everlasting Bailout? But who knows, maybe he'll get lucky. I certainly hope so.

One last observation: When John McCain told me what I wanted to hear, I didn't believe him. When Barack Obama told his supporters what they did not want to hear, they didn't believe him. Go figure...

No, one more thing: This has been a great thread. Most of you have been rational, intellectually honest, and polite. And even those who haven't have at least been interesting and funny (and brief!)

Hmm, we need to find a way to get your glass half FULL.

Perhaps remembering that the President isn't all powerful will help?

I've been gone, and hopefully I will be back a bit more now.

A person is smart people are dumb.

People don't change are ingnorant and never learn anything.

A person will learn and has the option to pull himself out of ignorance and change.
Some person's don't change and some People aren't persons.


My thoughts are that if indeed obama and his campaign have acted ignorantly, and if indeed the people have voted for him out of ignorance, then i woudl say that such events occur quite often.

If that did happen.
I will say no more, i have very strong views on politics, and am not ready to make a statement.
(hmmm, maybe i should run for president.)



Naaa.

wow thats much to read finally lol... anyway just can remember some parts...

1st 80% of the taxes are payed by 20%... ive even seen numbers like 90% - 10%
but you should also mention that these 10% also own 90% of the property in the country and thus its absolutely implausible to ask the 90% who only own 10% to pay for those that own each and all

you say in the canadian healthcare system the poor pay the rich and you wait 6 month for a surgery...
actually it depends on your income how much you pay... if you are in need of surgery you still get it just that pointless ones like a nose straightening can wait...

you say the president is not to blame for americas problems...(lol btw hes the bloody president)... you say the jurisdication is... well maybe go a bit further and say the 10% who pay the taxes are those that make the laws, are in the jurisdiction, print the money, loan it to the us and profit from all this of course...

actually it doesnt matter a dime if you vote republican or democrat... or anyone else... that whole system is based on corruption and would fall apart if there was none
do you actually think any politican in our great "civilized" world gives a damn about its people? how could they if they are ceos of a global player whose main goal is to make money and to extend power not to bring salvation...

who got money from the government after the financial crashes around the globe? not those in need but the jerks that are responsible... aka the banks and friends or put the other way to themselves...
the funny thing is: those banks print the dollar or the euro and then loan it to the governemnt for distribution (which is also lead by those banks in terms of interest rates and holdbacks)... loans not them pay back but you the slave)
which then gives it away to those banks... basicly they get the money twice... for what? for screwing the world...
did any small company that employs jeff and joe get a penny? only one penny? how much did these banks get? over here it were 500.000.000.000 euro... thats approximately enough to feed the whole world of mcdonalds for 5-10 yrs...

and here we realize that that whole system is a plain farce... hillarious to stay optimistic...

ya sure and go on blaming the blacks that obama is presi now... even if they were mccain wouldnt be better a bit... actually i know the same amount of blacks that think obama is a moron and the other likes him... same for whites, reds, browns and indigos... just no mustached redneck...

So what is the alternative to staying optimistic?

or ignore any facts they are presented with.

You are absolutely right right, I couldn't vote for him in good conscious even if I wanted to, due to the lack of qualifications, he even admitted it himself, that's what's so funny about it.

well said the bail out was a bad idea, now the auto makers want some too.

I told my kids after the election that the good news is America has finally voted in it's first black president, it's been a long time coming.
And the bad news is that unfortunately it just so happens to be Barack Hussein Obama.

Abraham Lincoln was a state senator and a national congressman, George Washington was a general and Ronald Regan was a the governor of California my "extremely politically informed" friend.
And YES Ronald Regan was the one of if not the best president we have ever had; he ended the cold war by bankrupting the U.S.S.R. and not firing a shot, that brilliance and balls of steel.

You are correct, I remember Chrysler also, it should have never been done and never repeated especially on the scale of the latest buyout.

Asking people to make sacrifices is one thing but taking a person's money and giving it to some one else ("spreading the wealth") is wrong.

------------------------------


How is this any different than what Adolph Hitler did except they were in a different part of the world and some were older?
This seem monstrous to me.

Their is only one innocent person involved in a pregnancy and that's the child so why kill them?
What about adoption? You never even mentioned that, there are so many couples just longing to have a child to love and raise and you want to kill them, how sick.

Please refrain from name calling. Lets keep the debate civil.

Stampede
Moderator

I've only got two things to say, hoots.

1) Using Obama's middle name in the manner you did indicates an extremely prejudiced attitude towards Muslims.

2) We've been "spreading the wealth" for some time now. Reagan did it. McCain would have done it. Don't recite campaign slogans if you don't understand them.

The needs of the parents outweigh those of a child most people believe is not an actual person yet, especially when they may be health issues. Also, for those wishing to adopt, we are already approaching the problem of overpopulation in much of this world, we don't need more unwanted children born.

At the end of the day YOU have no say over what a woman does with her body. Period.

The cause of most of the arguement - not all do.


I think you mean to say - "you should have no say".
For those who disagree with your first statement, its not just what a woman does with her body, its what she's doing with her, and her baby's, bodies.

seeing it as it is... a corrupt state of systematic enslavement of the world with the actors being unaware of it mostly and even if they are they are tempted to go for the money instead of rightousness

everything is money oriented - xcept for those that control and print the money, those who know that the money they give everybody is just a tool and no a real currency

once one studies a bit the field of economics youll soon realize that movies like "zeitgeist addendum" (as critiziable as it is) is true to the core... (just so you dont start ranting i just repeat what that movies states... i made up my mind some 10 yrs ago back in school when we treated the topic of interest and money creation, banking systems and so on... actually we were even told why it has to be that way but nevertheless you realize somin is quite amiss)

if you ask for an alternative... well... abolish money, and give everybody back what is his... most property on this planet was aqquired using illegal means (war, theft, extortion, etc) and then turned into legality (mr kennedy for example made his wealth during the prohibitoin with al capone, clinton was financed by coke dealers... etc)
and things like water, animals, land and so on i truly believe are not the property of someone...

basicly what we need would a be a money free world, where the ressources are distributed to where they are needed and also protected as good as possible from extortion... and our planet has enough ressources to feed anyone whilst giving a damn about overpopulation or us having the need to live under bridges...
and if you now say where is the incentive to do poo if there is no pay... well then look at this page and realize that there are 1mil + mods all made for the people to enjoy for free...

nobody can lay in the sun doing nothing at all... mankind is made to do, to create and so on but all these "instincts" are gone once money comes into play and turns the evaluation of doings from necessicity and joy to plain acquisition of more wealth and being better than your neighbour which then results in discrimination, hate, anger and crimes

and sorry but i dont think thats how nature or god if you like intended us to be

removing this need to be a "sinner" (for the lack of a better word not in need to be censored) would also remove the need for abortions as there would be no poverty to be feared, no discrimination and so on which are the main reasons for abortion...

"I told my kids after the election that the good news is America has finally voted in it's first black president, it's been a long time coming.
And the bad news is that unfortunately it just so happens to be Barack Hussein Obama."
I see no prejudice, it's his name; George Walker Bush, am I being prejudice now? John Sidney McCain, how about now?
You seem to have a problem with it, not me.


Give an example and help me "understand" please.

You're purposefully calling attention to it. It is exactly the same as saying "John Sidney McCain," except for one little detail: you don't use McCain's middle name in everyday discussion.



Taxes. You give money to the government, which in turn uses it to fund programs that do not benefit you.

No, friend, I meant what I said. You have no right what a woman does with her body. It is her BODY, her life, her health.

If people are so concerned about life, they should pour their energies into the abundance of life we already have in the world, many of whom are starving, etc. It should be nothing to do with you or anybody else what is going on with a woman and her body/pregnancy.

Perhaps if the day ever comes when it can be proven that an undeveloped fetus has sentience, things will change.

Ok the quote boxes are getting crazy here so I'm stopping

You said "You're purposefully calling attention to it. It is exactly the same as saying "John Sidney McCain," except for one little detail: you don't use McCain's middle name in everyday discussion."
I say: no I'm not and yes I would say John Sidney McCain to my children right after the election, it is showing a formal respect to that individual for just becoming President of the United States of America. But you go a head and read into it what ever you want, you will anyway.


Then you say "taxes", what an answer..
Reagan used taxes for the necessities and the military, he was not a big social spender.
As far as McCain goes, I guess we can't know for certain because he's not the President.
That's the whole point though isn't it, I don't want the government to steal my money and give it to someone else.
I've earned it though my own hard work and I want to decide who I give t to. not the government.
"That government is best which governs least".

No mate, originally you said that you have "no say" - not "no right to say". Oftentimes they are different things.

What about the rights of the potential human being? They have no rights I guess do they?
While the same hypocritical people will turn around and defend rabbits and rats but care nothing of potential human beings, they treat them like garbage. They will even let fully delivered babies die of neglect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYRpIf2F9NA
We are all monsters for allowing this murder and calling it choice.

Hoots, see my previous posts. Oh and get back to us when you are able to give birth and perhaps have more of a right to weigh in.

I suppose I'll leave the name discussion be; it's not going anywhere.

What you said about taxes really gets to the heart of the argument (though not in the way you intended).


Who's to say what is a "necessity"? I would argue that many social programs are necessities. You, of course, would disagree. On the other hand, I would argue that the war in Iraq was not a necessity.

Any time the government does anything, they are using the resources of their citizens. Some citizens may not agree with the government's decisions. However, knowing what I do about people in general, I personally think it is better to be governed than to trust people with money.

My view on abortion: I personally oppose abortion. However, I do not believe that religiously-decided morality should be legislated.

Hoots, the bill you mention had extra crap on it that Obama did not want to support. Remember, during the campaign, when both candidates were throwing around voting stats? Both sets of stats were inflated because of complex bills filled with unnecessary legislation. It happens all the time. One party will right a bill that the other party would be willing to support. They then add all sorts of things not related to the original bill. When the bill doesn't pass, they blame the other party for actually reading the bill before they voted.

I'm pretty much a leftist, but what i don't agree with is all this bailout bs. Throwing away OUR money to bail these guys out. If we're really going to do this shouldn't we as American citizens be getting a piece of the company? Like divide up to 0.001 percent per person or something like that. Hey WE are after all bailing them out! I bet the senate never even considered that. Oh no screw the small guy vulk him give him the bill to pay with no assets to back it up. And now we are going to bailout the big three. Great. And how i hear the banks arn't really spending the money where they should. Giving people promotions going on vacations. What kind of bull poo is this? We're being robbed. And here is a vid of what is to come. It'll only get worse if we continue down our path. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv6rQ0U01Yc

Ron Paul makes a lot of points not talked about in the media. Where is this 700 billion really coming from? Are they creating it out of thin air? If so the value of the dollar will continue to go down. Creating 700 billion dollars out of thin air? Is that the solution? I gues the 100 dollar bill will become the 1 dollar bill after all this is said and done. Pfff. Either way it's not good. All the democrats WANT to bail these guys out. Gues what? It's not the answer! Like i said i'm a far leftist. I gues u can call me a democrat, but i don't consider myself one. That's my 2 cents. I'm sure Obama will follow his fellow party members and once he gets ellected we will get taxed like crazy. Or he'll just create money out of thin air. Yeah...that's the answer. Pff. All they're doing is prolonging the depression. George W. Bush's administration tried to prolong it long enough to make himself look good. Unfortunately, he came just a little bit short...making him look really really bad.

We can only hope that Obama will continue to surround himself with intelligent people of various different opinions. He's done so in the past; it seems he likes to hear all sides of the story before acting.

Hey, that's called cunning, heres why:

Obama only needs to appeal to the general audience who doesn't know much about politics, and then speak of change and promised benefits. But he didn't win by just being black heres why:

Obama himself represents change (when was the last time you saw a black president?), people sees this subliminally and think (Donno if there will be) there's gonna be a revolutions or something.
Obama won by appealing to the patriotic and nationalist values of American peple
Obama targets the working class, as well as appealing to the big multinationals, happy multinationals=bigger multinationals=for jobs for the working class
Obama took advantage of the economic crisis
Obama's method of winning is a lot like Hitler........

Hey don't get me wrong, but there is so much resemblance its scary.

Hardly. In fact, the Republican National Committee went out of its way to label him as unpatriotic every chance they got.

Being charismatic doesn't make you bad just because some bad people were charasmatic. That's like saying that all timid people are dangerous because a timid kid once shot up a school.

What I found scary was that so many people responded positively to the fear-mongering by Sarah Palin and the RNC. If you want to talk about a general audience that knows nothing of politics, look no further than the crowd that booed McCain when he conceded defeat on Nov. 4.

He is SO! using nationalism of the american people, just listen to his speech, the word AMERICAN was added after every sentence

I think that's a requirement for all presidential candidates here. Hell it might be a law.

Considering the US's other option was McCain, who sounds like oven chips, and if he died (entirely possible, he isn't exactly youthfull) the US would have Sarah Palin. Can you really complain when Obama's elected? The fact that Sarah Palin can even get close to (arguably) being the most powerful person in the world frightens me. And your complaining that people voted for Obama? Jeez, it wasn't like you yanks had a great choice.

Indeed. I mean, he was attempting to become leader of the nation. How do you propose becoming the leader of a country if you don't even mention the country in your speeches?

I hope you realize just how stupid that sounds. I highly doubt that people voted for him simply because he stated the country's name so many times. There may have been a few people like that but the chances of him winning because of that is so slim that it's not even worth considering.

er...
HUH?!?!?!

1) If you're implying a connection to Saddam, guess what? He was secular and had no love for Muslims, religion, or anything that would detract from his glory. Much like Barrack's attitude, now that I think of it.

Barrack Obama has done NOTHING in the Senate except use it as a springboard to run for president. HE NEVER EVEN DID THE JOB HE WAS ELECTED TO DO!
Namely, represent his constituants. He's been too busy representing himself. The only thing he's talked about with any authority is himself. Any "issues" he's taken a "stance" on have seen his "stance" changed repeatedly. He has no platform and no plan. Which is why he hired the Clintons and their goof troop to run things for him. He's flip-flopped so damn much it's absolutely ridiculous. AND HE'S NOT EVEN BEEN SWORN IN YET!

He's proposed "Barrack Obama Day"! hahaha HE'S NOT PRESIDENT YET! He has done nothing, NOTHING to warrant a federal holiday, or even brownie points. He's done zero.

2) That's what governments do to keep the prols content.



Newsflash people, Presidents do not affect the economy, taxes, or domestic/foreign policy. They do not start wars.
Congress does.

Like Bush's idiot smirk? Get ready for four more years of it. Now with 60% more melanin.



Funny aside here, She has more executive experience than Obama and Biden put together. Cute, huh?
A well trained monkey can be President here. That's what makes America great!

Sure we did. John McCain.
Gee, a citizen tortured by enemy combatants or a friend and supporter of domestic terrorists... The choice is easy.

The media elected Obama. There is NO way all the votes, electoral or otherwise, were counted that fast. I call BS. He is not my president and never will be.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say in the first part of your post, so I'll leave it be.



...which is why we haven't had a war since WWII. Officially, that is. The President can and does deploy troops to hostile countries (as in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, and Iraq).



So does Rod Blagojevich. I guess it is cute, but it's certainly not useful.



Like George Bush. Just because an idiot can be elected president doesn't mean they should be.

But because they can, they will. Given enough time.

You claim his middle name is used to incite people and play on their unease toward Muslims.
I replied that Mr. Hussein did not like Muslims. Iraq's former dictator did not like anything that wasn't about him. Why do you think ultra-theocratic Iran wanted to smoke his mustachioed ass? Why do you think America propped up his regime at it's inception?
Because it was a secular state in a hostile Muslim world.
Just because you assume Americans are idiots doesn't make it so.

Indeed, you're correct. I misspoke. Using the name as such doesn't play on prejudices against Muslims; it plays on the connotations to the name provided by Saddam Hussein.