Ever since 9/11 I have been more involved in politics than others are/should be. What is being done for or to our country behind the scenes when others stroll through their day practically unaffected is fascinating to me, especially when the president has a tougher time compiling a noun larger than 3 syllables than scribbling "Al Kida dun ben heer" on the Bill of Rights with a crayon (...sorry I had to). Bush has shown me the ugly side of democracy and the importance for people like me to help stand against that abuse.

Since the election is around the corner and I have turned the legal age to vote this year, I am curious where the TES community stands when it comes to Obama and McCain. If you asked me, I'm strongly for Obama (I shook his hand when he visited Virginia this Thursday) because we can't expect change from McCain if he is for a war the US cannot financially support.

So if anyone is concerned, who are you for and why? Again, I'm just curious - I won't bite if I disagree.

Although most will disagree, and some will even LIE about certain aspects of this post, I feel it is my right to express my reply to said post.

I would not vote for either...
Obama wants to pull out of war too quickly which will create fatal retaliation....
think of it this way
I punch you in the mouth really hard
"My bad see ya"

Now are you going to go "Ok bye!" or "You son of a **** DIE!!" and attack me?

Now as for McCain his views on gun ownership and governmental power seem to completely undermine our concept of self-government which is already rapidly diminishing....

Also I must say 2 things.
Most people who vote for McCain are either in the army, or are 45+ (due to there views on war)
Most people who SAY they would vote for Obama only say so, or so be labeled racist if not....our youth is misled into voting for someone for fear of prejudice. Its sad because Im AA and I see more of my own people using racism toward white people than white people do toward them. The point is people are practically forced to vote for someone they don't know anything about.

I said I wouldn't bite, but this one here has one strange angle of attack.

First off, where exactly would most people disagree with me?
That Bush has been a disastrous president? Three quarters of the American population agree with me.
That I am for Obama because of his policies, not of his skin? Half of the American population aren't braindead - voters think, mind you.
That more kids my age need to participate in the elections? You're right, they shouldn't. How undemocratic of me to say.

Secondly, of course some will LIE about what I say: it's called politics. It's par for the course.

Thirdly, I wholeheartedly agree that there will be retaliation whoever becomes president, but there is where your logic is flawed:

"Lets just not vote because we're fucked either way."

WTF?

No, things can and should be done by the nominees to at least minimize the inevitable, though I disagree with McCain's approach. We can either destroy the problem (McCain) or repair it (Obama). We can either let more American soldiers die (McCain) or put the nation's security at risk (Obama). We can either be feared (McCain) or loved (Obama).

Lets put it into perspective: why do you think they attacked in the first place? For our freedom and democracy? Because we're a superpower? Just because? Hell no. We installed a Christian military base in the heart of the holy Muslim world. That pissed off the Middle East more than anything, so they demanded us to leave. We didn't. So they retaliated.

Now that Bush put more fists into the brawl, there is no one true way out of this. But if we weren't basking in a pool of our own ego and could at least consider alternative views from other nations which Obama is for, starting with withdrawing what Osama Bin Laden constantly calls "crusaders", we could be stepping in the right direction.

If you're going to attack me unprovoked, do it properly and with some foundation.

I don't like either one. Our democratic system is showing it's weakest side in the way that the candidates are chosen. You are given a choice between two or three that have been selected by each party to carry out the policy of that party. Anyone else is brushed aside like was done to Ron Paul and Dennis Kusinich. Then the big media gets into it and each partisan news group tries to show what a looser the people running against their personal favorite is. When they narrow it down to two, it becomes a mud slinging contest who can slime the other the worst before the election.

I will vote against the one I dislike the most come election day.

I'm leaning mainly towards obama because I dislike McCain more so far. I believe Obama is a liar oor at least has lied about a few thing he shouln't have. However...well I just don't like McCain and I think Sarah Palin's a.... well not a very nice term that will get me a strike or ban if I say it, even edited. I would rather have voted Clinton. I liked Bill I thought he was a good president. Yeah he had an affair and lied about it but he did a good job with our economy. Who would you rather have; a jackass who bases his decision on his religious preferences or a dirt bag but a dirt bag that knows how to run an economy?
Now before anyone jumps on me for mentioning religion, touchy subject here and rightfully so. It's because I'm almost certain the job of the government is to keep law and religion seperate. If that's true what does that say about a president that makes laws using religion to justify them?

You say they attacked like they attacked us first.
Lets look at your statement..

We installed a christian base in a muslim country...


Ok now by my standing installing a base in a country when there is clearly rejection...thats an attack.
And you must not actually pay attention to most of the people these days.....where I am now you can ask anyone "whats Obama"s stand on war"

You would get:
What? Man Obama is gonna be a good presdent.... he gonna help our country get rid of this debt we owe..


Ya Im serious that is the answer you would get.....Im in illinois mind you...corn field junkies....

And another thing you opened this just so you could start an argument because I in no way attacked you. I expressed my personal opinion against Obama....you take things too personally. BTW I would rather be fear. Love is a weakness I-M-O


Lol one more thing...
It wasn'ts bush's place to put us in Iraq, but its not Obamas place to just put our nation in danger to save them....That is not smart...

Good thing I live in Australia. Rudd seems to be a fairly good guy.

Yup but will he survive?

I hope so, he has done pretty well so far, people just expect him to be able to fufil everyone of his promises in a few months though, I think he is doing pretty well by me, especially because the prices of houses are to be lowered and I will need one in 5 or so years, maybe 3. It really depends on what the Liberal party do, if they stick up another John Howard Kevin Rudd will probably stay. Personally when I can vote I will vote for The Greens. Unless it is going to be tight between the two leading parties in which case I will vote for whichever one is better for me at the time because every vote may count.

I don't like either one. I already voted absentee and I voted for a 3rd Party candidate, Cynthia McKinney of the Green Party.

i dunno why we are spammed with these two chipmunks in tv and news all the time... i sincerely give a flying *selfcensorshiprules* about who becomes your next fuehrer... whoever it will be hell just bing death and destruction to the world as any good american puppet would... show me one candidate that had a sincere chance in the history of your country who wasnt a gangster, murder, liar or plain dictator... land of the free, home of the brave... lol... you are nothing but slaves! you work all day long for companies, sorry families, that print and distribute your money to their bidding and if you start questioning it they just kill off a bunch of their own to get the right to start a war and enlarge their power around the world... and you like usual believe any doh they say not even realizing how enslaved you are... how many countries, how many lives, families and cultures do you need to see destroyed until you are satisfied? you are the ones that started ALL the wars since your independence, lol what a word... you kicked out the british soldiers but welcomed their banks which now own you... sincerely IF somone like alquaida attacked you on 911, and i say IF with full consent, then you deserved it to see at least once how war and destruction looks like in reality... its sad for the innocent that died that day and i would have wished the planes struck somin more guilty like maybe chase manhatten while all its bosses were present but well how should that work... noone shoots at himself...
thus i advise you dont vote at all... your system is down the drain anyway no point in trying to keep it alive artificially... go to the streets burn the dollar, refuse to pay that illegal income tax and make a nice lil community with your neighbours... if the cops come to arrest you for not being the slave they wish just blast their head off... you got the means and its your hood you fight for not some tiny oil field in the 3r world you owners want to posses...

(im dont wanna indicate that any other country on that forked planet is much better but at least they dont piss everyone else off as you do)

edit: i want to express my sorrow about all those innocents that died tho (not just regarding 911 but also your soldiers who are stupid enough to fight for your fuehrers wealth)

dang.. and i thought everything was pretty okay here *shrugs*
it's just an Obama or McCain thread for who's to become the next president, not conspiracy theories of America. I do take offence to the way you act as if I myself had a choice to go to war, like That was something we all voted for.

I find it quite funny how people blatantly insult America as it is a whole only seeing the things you see on TV or read in the papers. I must argue here sir, as Americans are not as bad as everyone makes us out to be. We are blamed for pollution..

Look at Japan...they have 13% higher pollution rates than the US and we get the blame.. know why? Because Japan is also technologic capital of the world and no one wants to endanger that. Our "obesity." Ok we have fat people...know why?
Because we also have the third least amount of homeless people in the world...we house more people which would create more people eating too much....

Our "stupidity," I speak 3 languages and am currently going to college and my senior year had all AP classes....
Hallo wie gehts es du mir heute?

All the TV shows see is purely unedjucated bafoons. Know why?!?!?! BECAUSE IT SELLS! Im not saying America is perfect...... but neither are your countries...

England had slaves before America
Germany had/has Nazis
Japan for pollution

I am sick of people insulting america without knowing the facts. Stop believing everything you see on TV folks...

On another note, every country has good presidents and bad presidents. Bush was a bad one, Clinton was a good one, the only way we can know if obama/mccain will be a good president is to wait it out. Life is random.

Oh and we kicked britains out because they decided they were going to increase their militia and try to retake control.
Our superiority is evident...look these three up: Battle of Trenton, Battle of Bunker Hill, and Battle of Saragota.


Read them carefully.
And we started wars in retaliating to defending our freedom and protecting the innocent. Home of the Brave indeed. The whole world complained of the conditions in Iraq yet we were the ones to go in and try to help!

sorry double post

exactly what any good slave would say...

may i hint at the fact that all the countries you mentioned regarding pollution and all these bad things are still occupied by your forces? japan, germany, israel, etc...

true i had a nice time in spangdalen playing ball with your men but after seeing how they send WMDs through and extort citicens out of my homeland... well guess how i feel... how would you feel if North Korea stationed some nukes in your lawn and would take your brother to some remote island to torture him?

if youre so clever plz learn to spell german properly...

england had slaves before america? well ya they bought em and sold em to you... and if you read caerefully youd understand that england instead of kicking it out with your "superiority" just took you over in another way... a more subtle one... the fiscal method works well...

who gave the nazis the bucks to rise to power? mmh lemme guess... you?

clinton was a good presi? he bombed i dunno how many fascilities around the globe and came to power by taking money from coke traffickers... honorable indeed...

you started wars to defend your freedom? and who the heck did ever attack you xcept mexico after you occupied texas?

you started wars to defend others freedom? lol i have friends in jail cause they oppose (with words not arms) the totalitarian government (egypt for example) your gov finances and supports with wepons fully knowing they use it to create terrorists...

i stated myself that the US of A(ss) are not the only badass country but definately the one which spreads its evil doings the furthest around the globe...

i also said that i feel my heart break regarding all those innocent dead including yours... but plz before you mourn for your gis take in count that they had a choice to go and kill kids, mothers and grandpas in the millions unlike back in vietnam where you had to be rich not to do it... yes i know its prolly not even their fault as your media is so screwed that you hardly see anything else than what these few rich families want you to see and thus you are free to do as they tell you...

i have quite some friends in the us some came there some were born there... i come from the former gdr and when i finally left a totalitarian system to live in the "free west" i thought im finally in paradise... the us was our idol, we were true fans... but after seeing what is and what is not i can just say there is no *selfcensorshiprules* difference between the usa, the gdr, nk, uk or whatever... its just wrapped up nicer... with mickey mouse ears and a fat burger in the mouth... mjammi

still i have hope that one day your country will behave according to your constitution which indeed is one of the finest in the world (well at least you have one... )

I have to say Jaysus that I'm severely disappointed in you. At one point I had a great deal of respect for you. All of that was flushed down the toilet with just 2 comments. No just your first warranted a flush but twice you spouted ignorant hate. What you said was a broad, offensive, ignorant, stereotype and it was damn near racist. Scratch that it WAS racist. I feel just as if not more offended than if you were to have called me a beaner. It's not just America that's F'ed up it's everywhere around the world. It seems to me like you put the weight of your ignorant hate on us because of a bad experience you've had. If I would have hated every one based on their ethnicity, place of birth, or the color of their skin because I had a bad experience with one of them I'd hate every living human on this planet. No matter where you go or who you're around you going to find jackasses. Congratulations on being the first person I've blocked here. I don't care whether your next post is an apology, recant, or more likely an insult directed at me stating that I proved your slave point. I'm not going to chance having to listen to anymore hate. I get enough of it around where I live. I thought the nexus forums were a place to sit back and talk with chill people but you've proven this place can be as hostile as a Nazi convention. I may unblock you in a week or two after I've cooled down but I'll never have the same if any respect for you again.

If anyone deserves the right to bitch about how things are it's my people. We Native Americans had a coexistence with the land until the settlers came in and pushed us from our lands. Before you blame that on the Americans the settlers that came here were immigrants from Europe. So do I hate all Europeans because they enslaved my people, took our land, and brought disease? No I don't blame them because it's in the past and I don't blame others because of what their ancestors did. You seem to hold yourself so high and mighty but don't forget ALL Americans were immigrants from Europe or Asia at one time or another. So before you spew hate at people because of the land of their birth remember "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

Good day and screw you.

-Sincerely Blacksnake89

@black
erm you didnt really live in coexistence before the settlers came... but i get your point here,
what i dont get is why you blame yourself for somin i say about your government and the inflitration of your system by banks and some powerful, dimishing the worth of your constitution to piece of paper but an ideologic property to be kept alive... i dont deny that those that made america a female dog came from europe but i neither get why you dont do anything against it
should all the dead have died for nothing? the war for independence for nothing? the civil war for nothing?
and sorry but you cant compare a crime that was done a 100 yrs ago to somin that happens today... the extortion and assimilation of native americans is more or less over, the occupation and extortion of other places on earth not... so you blame me for being damn angry about the same thing your forefathers fought and died because of? you honor them but hate the world that does the same? sorry but i dont see any logic in that except a selfish and egocentric view of freedom and peace which is in sharp contrast to what i thought would make a native american spirit or the american spirit in general...
if anyone is disappointed than it is me in the us, a country as i stated i once held up high in childish naivity

I forgot to block you but I'm glad I didn't. I felt greatly insulted by your first post because to me you said anyone who lives in America is a worthless slave. Seeing as I live in America I felt I was one of the people targeted in that statement. I hear enough racist crap around here daily and was already having a bad day, a very bad day. I came hear read your post and flipped the f*ck out. I had to delete my post and rewrite it about 4 times because I'm 99% sure either one of the 4 original posts would have got me an instant ban. You do make some valid points though. I indeed do what I can to help the situation but what I don't do is point the finger of blame where it is not deserved. Nor do I point it where it is. Blaming others whether true or false gets you nowhere and waists time you could be using to help make things right.

I don't begrudge the Europeans or the Americans for what's happened to the natives. What's done is done and we'll never know what it'd be like if things were different. For all I know if it hadn't been for the settlers my people might have ended up starving, died from war, or eaten by mutant genocidal gophers. Sorry for exploding on you it wasn't all called for and thank you for being the bigger man. I still believe your earlier posts were uncalled for but most of my former respect for you has been restored.

calling you "slaves" is not an insult! it may feel insulting but then only to wake you up imo...
seeing that youre the by far most powerful nation on the planet i think it is your duty to stand up against that crap that goes on and is sadly enough being promoted by your government since ages... you are the ones that can stop it! if the "callitwhatyouwantglobalconspiracyorwhatevercrap" fails in the us it will most likely fail everywhere...
its not easy and noone said it... its rooted to deep in global history starting with the 1st monotheistic religions in egypt going over to the roman empire, stretching through napoleon and the eventual buy out of britain by the rothshilds leading to the fiscalization of enslavement in the us... which lead to the world becoming their tool due to the power of the dollar and by now even the euro... its not about the people its about the virtual money that rules the world, controlled by a few nasty fellows...

lol thx for not blocking me but if you did it would only have benefitted my will tho i think... hate me if you like but wake the damn up and stop to do as your told but do as you seem is right! if that implies me being a victim of hate well so be it... i rather go down seeing the sun dusk at the horizon than to strive in eternal darkness...

McCain = No tax increase

Obama = Socialism

Does anyone know anything about the supposed lawsuit against Obama in Pennsylvania? I think it's about him not wanting to produce a birth certificate and prove where he was born ...

slaves: People forced to work for free

Me Im not forced to work. I can leave the country if I please. I can be a bum if I choose. Working isn't slavery which is something you clearly don't understand.

so what do you get for you work? some dollars... these are printed and distributed by the fed... the fed is owned by whom? some banks... the us gov then buys that bunch of paper from the fed in change for gold and lets em distibute it... you can then change that money for food or whatever you deem necessary... do you get the value you work is worth? definately not...

by distributing that money these banks can regulate the worth of your money which they once again did in this financal crisis by lowering the interest rates and thus furthering the negative outcome since money can be lend cheaper and thus more money is created to fullfill the need (interest rates do nothing but create money... wertschoepfung its called dunno the english word for that sry) resulting in inflation

thus your income is not regulated by what or how much you work but how these few banks think how much you get should be worth

this is quite the same as a slave who gets a lumb of bread and a cup of water a day... some give em more some less...

this system worked well and only few challenged it aslong as a steady supply of cheap goods is at hand, these cheap goods on the other hand have to be created by extorting some others and also nature to produce cheap, since the globalization is now big enough for some wealthy cooperations to spread their influence and their territories of production around the globe that kind of cheap labour is not avaible in such quantities anymore since even these companies want to get payed equal in worth to what they would make in the us... thus things become more expensive... this results in less people buying and some companies getting in trouble as they dont sell enough anymore... the fed now lowers interest rates to give the economy a push to produce more and cheaper since you can lend money cheaper... this usually works indeed (short term) but the outcome is a raised inflation rate and an unhealthy economy due to overproduction resulting in a bunch of companies which cant pay back their loans and thus are taken over by the banks and done with as they please...
this way the well known banks accumulated a wealth which is far bigger than that of your country or any other and thus had the possible means to legally take over the government by supporting political campaigns, politicans, etc and therefore forcing em to become their tools (you should read jeffersons -or one of his buddies im unsure atm who wrote it- comments on money which he wrote in conjunction with the constitution and what he sees as the far biggest danger to america)...

the final result of all this is that the economy, the government and also the people are dependant on a few powerful which own mostly everything often reffered to as "the man"

"Slavery is the systematic exploitation (thast the point) of labor. As a social-economic system, slavery is a legal or informal institution under which a person is compelled to work for another"
from wikipedia

as you see its not about not getting anything for your work but merely only what your master deems is enough and not what would be right and i hope you understand my above comment far enough to see that, if not im sorry its rather hard to put in one single post, youd have to study economics a bit to fully understand that chain of doom...

reading a bit into the topic of the 1927 (xxx7?) crisis and who profitted from it and also how they made that profit helps aswell... well to tell you right away... these banking families which even furthered the crisis and then called for the fed to be created as a counter tool to the next crisis (well as a tool to counter the next crisis to their bidding)...

and to your comment about becomin a bum - kant's categorical imperative does not fit... if everyone became a bum who would give the bum his pennies? sry cents... thus this is irrelevant
and show me one place in the us where you just go to the woods, shoot an elq and eat it without being hunted by a park ranger or somin (if you have no licence)... you just cant live of the land anymore

I didn't waste time reading your wall of text. I did however skim a bit and it looks that you dissapprove of working for your livings. The harder you work the better off you are. I do not disagree with that. Im lower class but I get by. Im content with how I live. I have dinner every night. I put my kids to bed. I kiss my dear wife goodnight. Then I lay my head down. I lay down without a regret in the world knowing everything Ive done in this life, everything I have, I have earned. Work is a blessing. Those who choose not to work and live their lives as beggers, well thats their choice.

and how dare you to criticize what i write if you dont even read it? lol...

and your post clearly states that you dont have the slightest clue what i actually wrote... read it again and criticize if you like but otherwise better dont try to respond to somin you never read...

I read up to the part where you basically said we need paid more. I read enough to know through the immense amount you write and the words you use to try to make yourself look smart you don't have the slightest clue about any economy.

well good you have more clue and "prooved" my comments to be wrong (yeah criticism is a skill)... just good that there are genious like you who know the truth and understand the system so well that they dont even need to question it and only need to read one sentence not even understanding it to fully grasp a topic one could write books about... lol *selfcensorshiprules*

but to be correct ill try to answer your words... i nowhere say that you need to be paid more... i ask if what youre being paid is worth that what you actually do and if youd have read on youd see that your income does not relate to your work but to the sheer will of some few...

oh and im terribly sorry for sounding clever... i know its my fault but i just cant write like a retard so please forgive me my weakness

Obviously, this is a 'bashing' session and not a real discussion. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. Please continue ...

check this out!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081030/ap_on_..._check_obama_ad

McCain=Bigger Government
Obama=Bigger Government

The only real difference is that McCain will borrow and spend and Obama will tax and spend.

Although due to the debt Dubya left us, we will need to both raise taxes and cut spending to deal with it.



I have heard rumors of that. I do not think it will pan out since he would not have won the Democratic primary if he could not be president due to not being a native born American.

IMO, this rumor started due to the obviously false rumors of Obama being and Arab and/or Muslim.

from the 'official website' .. I don't think it's a rumor, and it's easy enough to find out.
here's the website -> http://www.obamacrimes.com/


I don't believe the rumors, but I start to sit up and take notice when a reputable person is filing lawsuits in federal court.

Point is, if any of this is even close to being true the US will see the biggest legal battle in history. Obama should just produce an original birth certificate and be done with it. The problem with ignoring the issue is people start to think of all the past coverups in government and this is another. This issue has been ignored by the Obama people for several months. The courts can't ignore it.

Judge Surrick in Federal court dismissed the case for "Lack of Subject Matter", which is a nice way of saying "I don't want to deal with this"

The case is now before the US Supreme Court.


on a side note .. I think it's sad when a father has his nine yo son go out and steal political signs from a front yard. The child could have been hurt. The father needs a serious spanking and the paddle should have nails in it.
read here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081031/ap_on_....flJ.ESbdEuQE4F

With all due respect, if you read past the conspiracy of family banks (which is opinion and can be debated infinitely), the rest actually describes how economy works so I would very much like you to point out where Jaysus was wrong in describing economy.

Note that I am a mere bystander in the discussion but like to see all facts laid out.

In short, where do you think Jaysus has it wrong on the economy and how do you think it actually works? (or does not as we can see these days)

While I am replying, I can add something for Stephanie: you can argue people's policy decisions and aspirations, but using labels like "socialism" does not really help anything because it has been misused. Indeed, do you mean Socialism like in today's Europe? Which one? Finland? Sweden? Norway? Germany? France? Italy? They all apply it differently and to different degrees.

With all due respect, most of the countries in Europe have welfare states, a form of socialism that keeps taxes high so people who don't want to work for a living can have welfare, socialized medicine, High prices for just about everything, and government control of all of it. The wealth is effectively redistributed from those who earned it to those with their hands out and don't want to work for a living.

Government is the problem.

here's a sample of "Swedish Socialism":


Awesome!! We need this!! It will definitely give the US an economy to be proud of ...

What if Arnold Schwarzenegger was President?
He'd make a good one im sure

If he were a natural born citizen and wanted the job I think he would do well. But, since he was foreign born and is only a 'naturalized' citizen, he's gone as far as he can.

Oh