With Oblivion being an open ended game, you can become the Daedric Prince of Madness and then do the Main quest. What's always struck me as odd, is, if you're going to save Tamriel, why do it alone when you have an army at your command? If the Mythic Dawn can summon Oblivion gates, why can't you, the Daedric Prince of Madness, summon gates as well?

The idea of two Daedric Princes clashing against each other in war has always appealed to me. And I thought it would be interesting if there was a spell that allowed you to summon your own gate. (Using Peryite's gate mesh would be nice.) that spawned Dark Seducers and Golden Saints to counteract Dagon's daedra.

See it like this.

You approach a gate, the deadra are spawning. In response, you summon your own gate that spawned Seducers and Saints that would fight alongside the imperial legion (If they're around) and battle Dagon's forces?

Why not show Dagon that if he wants Tamriel, he has to go through a fellow Daedra Prince? Summon Three gates of your own at the Battle of Bruma to negate Dagon's and make the battle easier. This would go great with the mods 'Daedra Overran Tamriel' and 'Enhanced Daedric Invasion' as you could aid these fellows by showing them they have Sheogorath himself aiding them.

Why stand up to Dagon as a lone Hero? Why not as Sheogorath, let him know you aren't going to stand by and let his invasion succeed?

Just a request,

ZaWarudo.

This IS possible. Summon Oblivion Gates allows you to summon Dagon's Oblivion gates and gives you a spell to destroy them.

the people of cyrodil dont know that your Prince of Madness dont get me wrong the idea good but i think its best if no one in cyrodil knew you was and if you want this with story i dont thnk they would allow the Prince of Madness to appear and the other daedric princes would get involed either way its going to be hard but if anyone knew scripting it could be done

Col John Sheppard

You're forgetting, you aren't a real Daedra at the end of SI, you're more like a mortal stand-in. Your powers are also limited to only work in the isles. Even if that weren't the case, not all Daedra are of the same power, and not all Daedric spheres are effective in battle. Put simply, you'd get pwned. Dagon is the prince of destruction, both his minions and sphere are based around destruction. The Prince of madness however is not, his minions do little more than fight with eachother, something that you have to help with, and his sphere is more concerned with personal derrangement than anything offensive. I'm sure there are other reasons... If you want to go digging through lore, but this is the most basic one.

From a modding standpoint, something like this would take alot of time trying to work out, and probably break half the game in the process. It's never a good idea to go screwing around with vanilla quests, too many things can go wrong. There are also alot of uncertainties which would need to be sorted out involving what would actually be changed, what can be done, and what people would expect. Because of this, a project like this, isn't something which even fairly skilled modders should attempt. The mod not turning out like others expect it to turn out might even be worse than nobody ever doing it. And ultimately, the mod may be ignored by most who have already finished the main quest more than enough times, and can't be bothered to play through parts again just for a few minor changes.

hmm thanks for reminding me about being a "mortal stand in" this kinda kills the mod a bit

Col John Sheppard

Neither are Malacath, Mehrunes Dagon, Sheogorath, and Meridia.
they were turned into daedra princes like you

And ofcourse lets not forget 'bout the other Daedra Lords that are better fit to fight (and probbably will if Sheogorath shows-up), not so mutch to kick Dagons ass but just to fight. Daedra like Boethia, Jigalag and what's her name..., "The web spinner".

And I also I think that the Impereal legion will not really accapt the help of "The god of Madness", it'll become a free-for-all.

sorry where does it point that out?

Col John Sheppard

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra

"Technically, Malacath, Mehrunes Dagon, Sheogorath, and Meridia are not "true" Daedra. These are beings transformed into Daedra by various unpleasant circumstances."

Yeah,I havnt noticed anything in the pages of the lore I've read about the Daedric lord, and I was reading up on them recently. I idnt see anything mentioning those Daedric Lords once being mortals.


The only mortal that achieved a form of divinty (Aedra or Daedra) other than you, is Tiber Septim.

Actually, I believe Arkay was also a mortal.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Gods_A#Arkay

However there is nothing saying that any of the Daedra were ever mortal. Most of the Daedra and Ardra were present at the forming of Nirn, so can't be mortal. Technically the distinction between Daedra/Aedra, and other godlike beings (like Magnus) is more of a political choice than anything fundimental about those beings. As there is no real diffinitive constant with lore, the specific details are impossible to sort out.

But this does not change the fact that atleast at this point Dagon is more powerful than the player, and can only be vanquished by the avatar of Akatosh, which although was mortal, was a fully transformed mortal... Rather than one who was basically given a few semi-worthless powers and given free reign of a realm. Comparatively, the player isn't even given the powers that MC was since the player's abilities only work inside the Shivering Isles. And finally, the Mythic Dawn was not the ones who made Oblivion gates, if anything they were just mortals who were tricked into performing deeds for Dagon in exchange for a place in "paradise".

Yeah, now that you mention it, it would be lore breaking. But I just found it wierd that while Dagon is destroying the world, the other princes are just standing by. You think ONE of them, like Azura, would intervene. But yeah, it probably would bring in other princes, most likely being Jyggalag seeing as he doesn't have a realm. Which, while a Battle Royale would be fun. From the way you talk about it, it'd be WAY too hard. (I didn't know making it so you could summon gates was such a pain, considering there's a spell on it.)

But please explain how it would break half the game. All you would really do is summon your own Oblivion gate that'll spawn friendly Seducers and Saints to help the legion. I'm not asking for a quest line. Just a spell.

EDIT: Ok, after reading the scripts from the summon Oblivion gate mod, I can say that this looks NOWHERE near as hard as you were making it out to be.

If it's one part of one quest, no, it's not too difficult, but still may not work very well since SI NPCs are coded to lose dialogues within the normal world. You may also have some faction issues to deal with, having your SI summons killing off the Tamriel Guards, or not attacking any of the other Daedra for instance. The problem is that few would be satisfied with just one part of one quest, so it would undoubtebly become more complicated as time went on.

And if I remember correctly, the player eventually gets the ability to summon a saint or seducer, they just can't do it outside SI. What you're really after is just fixing that part of things, when you think about it.

You really have to wonder why Seducers and Saints have that error.

It's part of the blanket dialogue restructuring which was needed to keep Non-SI conversations from happening in SI and vise versa. Unfortunately Bethsoft didn't bother to use something more reliable, like factions, to control this part, and instead used a single global variable to control a half dozen different, key, aspects about the game.

So it's literally impossible to fix?

jees Vegrent you alwyas have to be such a killjoy. trust me when i preposed a mod that allowd you to recive healign from the healers of the chapels instead of just the alters he bashed my idea too. i personally really like this idea if it can be done. prehaps this can be fixed by creating clone Races of the Saints and Saducers.

You wouldn't even need to go that far, pretty much all you'd have to do would be change the conditions on dialogues... The real work of the mod would be in creating a spell which allowed you to summon such an army, and explain why that is the only power you can use outside of SI. Unlike Tnu's mod, this one has fewer, significant, technical issues, and more lore based issues. If you don't care about lore, it doesn't really matter. However, as I stated initially, having such an ability which is only good for one event which people would have to play through the main quest just to use, might not be something people would bother downloading and using. Something like this would probably be done mostly for personal entertainment, and just uploaded to share.

You call it being a killjoy, I call it being honest and realistic. Would you really want me to go leading people onto projects that are not achievable or don't accomplish very much? I tell people what they can probably expect when doing their ideas, they can always choose not to listen. While it is true, most of what I say tends to be worse case scenerios, but some people like being able to prepare themselves for when things go wrong, or know problem areas so that they can plan around them.