just a detering pose, I cann't believe Russia dare invade America, she could by no means win US in a tatal war. Putin is not stupid.

I see that some western people put their opinion about Russia on some stupid movies like "Hitman" etc ... This is very sad, but we have already got used to it ... How many times should be repeated? There is NO COMMUNISTS IN RUSSIA !!! The Communist party of The Russian Federation DO NOT HAVE ANY POWER in the state, because all they can do - it's FLAPING THEIR LIPS! People support those who is not afraid to incur responsibility for destiny of the country. Nobody wants to annex Georgia! It could be a BIG mistake!


There is no russian nationals in South Ossetia! Ossetins is the Caucasian people. They are CITIZENS of Russia, they are RUSSIAN PASSPORT HOLDERS, but they NOT Russians - they are Caucasian people. Ethnically they are close to the same Georgians, Abkhasians, Armenians and others. Historically they lived in this territory. This is their territory! Here that speaks BBC:


I hope you understand it. They don't want to be a part of Georgia - neither earlier, nor now.


In 1992 presidents of Georgia and Russia have signed the international contract according to which both georgian and russian peacekeepers should watch peace and order in South Ossetia to not admit conflict development. But, as i have already told, 07 august 2008 georgian officers and military observers from Georgia leave their posts of peacekeeping forces, referring to the command order, and 07 august 2008 at 22:00 Georgia has attacked South Ossetia. At that point in time the parity of number of the georgian army (which is invaded in South Ossetia) to number of russian peacekeepers made 12:1. Georgian army have attacked the city with civilians, which are citizens of Russia. The Georgian soldiers killed russian peacekeepers. Any questions?


UK ordered 200 British subjects to evacuate Georgia? These people have arrived in Georgia with diplomatic missions or to make some business. Do you know that in South Ossetia live 120 THOUSANDS of ossetins (but now on two thousand it is less - thanks to Saakashvili and the georgian army)? These people historically lived in this territory! Did you ask yourself, why these people should leave cities in which they was born and have grown, to throw their houses, their work and to become refugees? Because Saakashvili requires satisfaction of national pride?

Moreover, Caucasus - this is not so easy, as you, probably, think. Do you know that the caucasian people have a blood feud, vendetta? Do you heard about Vitaly Kaloev, the ossetin who has killed the swiss aviadispatcher of Skyguide company, which was guilty in the Russian airplane destruction, on which were wife, the 11-year-old son and the 4-year-old daughter of Vitaly Kaloev? That's it! How do you think, whether the ossetins, who have lost two thousand of the compatriots, friends, parents or children to unite now with Georgia? Saakashvili is the stupid idiot !!! Now Abkhasia - the second rebellious region of Georgia, has started to fight against the Georgian army! Do you think, he did not know, all will occur so? He started the sh1t between the Caucasian people, that now can be tightened for MANY years!

I'm sorry, Nob0dy, but I have no idea what your last paragraph means. Are you trying to say that the Russians now have some kind of blood feud with the ossetians because one of them blew up a Russian plane? Or did a swiss person blow up a plane? Are Russia and ossetia at war with the Swiss?? Which Caucasian people have a blood feud, you're going to have to narrow it down from ALL OF THEM, AS THIS IS FAR TOO GENERAL. I'm caucasian by defenition, as is most of Europe. Am I supposed to hate the Swiss?
*weeps in fear of the swiss with their delicious chocolate*

nob0dy,
Thank you for your input! Most (but not all) of us in this thread must rely on western news sources (Associated Press, Reuters, BBC, etc) for our information, and many get their news from CNN or FOX or MSNBC (those three "news" sources are less about news, and more about manipulation of public opinion).

It is difficult for most Americans to understand the politics of the former USSR, since most of the traditions of America come from Europe, and in Europe the political boundaries largely match the ethnic boundaries, with but a few exceptions (the Balkans, and the Basque region). I, myself, was unaware of any factor of ethnic tensions in the region... I had assumed the conflict was mostly political.

Fester: Cut the guy some slack, and don't make jokes until you've done your research! A quick Google would've netted you this information. Forgive the grammar; it's a machine translation into english from a cached page.

"Vitaly Kaloev lost his wife, daughter and son in the crash over Lake on the night of July 2, 2002, when Tu-154 "Bashkirskih Airlines and cargo Boeing company DHL. All passengers, including 45 children flying to a vacation in Spain, were killed. The catastrophe occurred in the zone of responsibility "giant".

In October 2005, the court recognized the Zurich rossiyanina guilty of murder air traffic, which guard the night catastrophe. The Prosecutor's Office demanded Switzerland Kaloeva sentenced to 12 years' imprisonment, but the court referred to the 8 year of strict regime prison. In June 2007, sentences reduced to 5 years and 3 months. A November 8, 2007 Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland has decided to rossiyanina early release."

To explain; a swiss air-traffic controller incorrectly performed his job, causing the collision of a cargo airplane belonging to DHL and a passenger airplane bound from Georgia to Spain. Everybody on board was killed, including the wife and children of Vitaly Kaloev. Mr. Kaloev proceeded to track down the air-traffic controller and kill him, for which he was sentenced to 12 years imprisonment in Switzerland. His sentence was recently commuted, and he was released from the Swiss jail where he was being held, but there's some bad blood between Georgia and Switzerland as a result.

Make sense to you now? EDIT: Upon further thought, I think I understand nob0dy's statement. It sounds like the Ossetians have a cultural practice of "Blood Feud"... kill one of theirs, they'll kill one of yours... and he mentioned the Kaloev case as an example. If that's true, the conflict in Ossetia will indeed take a long, long time to be resolved.

at nobody
interesting infos------and familiar tone, I must have seen you somewhere before.

This's the first time I deal with authentic americans(Dio mio, my english improves a geat deal through arguing), many of them are very thoughtful and objective, such as humanbean, of course, they have their viewpoints based on their own interests , so do others, I can understand that.

I think it doesn't make any sense to focus on how/why the conflict began, people may mistake it for propaganda, it is more important to predict how both sides react next and how the conflict ends

humanbean, thanks. Made a bit of an arse of myself, but computer is, i think, partially to blame. Everytime i tried googling vitaly kaloevi got an 'internet cannot display this page' page, and the computer ther crashed, rather annoyingly. Even when i got it back up though i could get no info on the man or any incident. Have no idea what the computer is playing at. Thanks again. Consider slack duly cut.

I don't think it's a communist regime that's currently in power, but I do think that the current Russian government is NOT a friend of the west, aka US, UK, France, etc...

Russia is targeting the Georgian government, plus they launched a full scale invasion of Georgia. Call it what you want, but what they're doing is an invasion. It's obvious that Russia used whatever happened in South Ossettia as an excuse to invade.

You could be right, or they could just be practicing.


So when the USA declared war on Iraq because it invadd Kuwait, did the US stop after they pushed the Iraqi army out of Kuwait? No, they pushed into Iraq. Explain to me how that is any less wrong than what russia is doing.


Again, we would most likely lose if we invaded Russia. If they invaded us, that would be probably be a different story, considering historically island countries (The US isn't an island I realize, but it'd still be the same basic idea) are harder to inve.



Thank you. You put it really nicely.

New Update: Russia has suspended offensive operations in the region.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/a...ion-in-georgia/

The source where I viewed this article followed it with a link to a press-release about US President George Bush denouncing Russia's continuation of attacks beyond the point where Georgia was pressing for a cease-fire, and I'm not sure if this news agency was attempting to imply that Russia only ceased its attacks due to Bush's statements (I highly doubt it).

After nob0dy's explanation of the Vendetta tradition in the region, I think I understand why they would continue the assault for a time beyond Georgia's capitulation... probably the only way they could achieve some likelihood of preventing the Ossetians from conducting mass-scale vigilante attacks against Georgian citizens.

That's great to hear. It pretty much disproves the whole "Russia is trying to annex Georgia" idea.

Since most of the print media is liberal, it would be both rare & out-of-character for them to support a conservative president.

I sincerely hope that Putin won't entertain any thought of annexation. History shows that Russia did that a lot. My only thought here is if the people of Georgia wish to stay free of communist control, then they should have the chance to live their life the way they desire.

Isn't the Washington Times a pretty conservative paper?

The more the better for our nation. Right now, the only one that comes to mind is The Weekly Standard. I don't subscribe to newspapers anymore. Every one in my area is 100% liberal, so not fair & balanced like Fox News. That's why I gave up on Network TV news also.

Heh, yeah, most TV news channels are dumb. I like some shows on MSNBC though. They seem to be pretty moderate, compared to CNN and Fox anyway.

I usually don't watch the tv news channel, although I do check out the site www.drudgereport.com

My news source is the Earlybird, a daily collection of synopses of open-source articles with links to the original article.
The Earlybird is produced by the US Federal Government, and is part of the daily briefing to members of the US House of Representatives and US Senate. It's somewhat limited, in that it only lists stories that pertain to US national interests, but it's as completely unbiased as is humanly possible.

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/ebird.htm

humanbean234: thanks! It's my mistake. I should find article in english and quote it here, instead of translate from russian. Of course there is no any vendetta between Ossetia and Switzerland. Vitaly Kaloev - it's just example. He realised his PERSONAL vendetta against that man, which was guilty in death of Kaloev's family. And Kaloev knew, who is guilty in death of his family. And Kaloev realised his vendetta against this man - swiss aviadispatcher. But people in Tskhinvali do not know who killed members of their familys. People just saw that it was georgian soldiers. And now enmity between the nations has expanded with new force.

And i don't know what now will be ... South Ossetia and Abkhazia want to be independent from Georgia. Georgia wishes to keep them as a part of the Georgia. But after Georgia has attacked South Ossetia they hardly will agree. Also now they hardly will agree with presence of the georgian peacekeepers on the ossetian and abkhazian territory. Russian government will support a position of Ossetia and Abkhazia, i think. But our politicians say that now is prematurely to speak about independence of Ossetia. I think, now they will try to keep provinces as a part of Georgia. I don't know... But, as before, there will be some russian military presence in the ossetian and abkhazian territory - i do not doubt it almost. Peacekeepers from the NATO countries in this region are undesirable. Probably for this purpose will be involved peacekeepers from other countries of Caucasus. Probably, from Armenia, for example. I don't know. It is simple the assumption. If Saakashvili wished to unite Georgia, he has made for this the WORST that he could.


I see, you not in a course of arrangement of political forces in the world. France, Germany and Italy is our major economic and political partners in Europe. This is one of the reasons why the french president now mediates in negotiations between Georgia & Russia. England almost always holds the same opinion, as the US, but reserves the right to itself to criticise sometimes some actions of the US government. It's only US and UK governments have unconditionally supported Georgia in this conflict. Other European countries have much more more weighed opinion about this conflict. Therefore i prefer to read the European media to learn a trustworthy information. Georgia and US on the one hand, and Ossetia with Russia on another, they - interested parties. That's why their media will not tell all the truth. And here that speaks Times (UK; i think, you know The Times - this is one of the most influential newspapers in UK, if not the most influential):


Surprise-surprise! It's all about oil again. And i want to underline, that it is written by an UK press, which is pro-georgian in this conflict, not pro-russian. So the nearest partner of the USA in Europe actually officially admitted, that US and NATO have political interests in this region, and provide some military assistance to Georgia. Policy is a dirty thing ... Because of it people die.

And about "Moscow's dominance" in the East Europe and former Soviet republics... We don't want to RULE in these countries! But we also don't like rockets and a radars of the NATO at our borders! The russian government officially offered the United States to create the international system of antimissile defence in Europe and besides suggested to take advantage for this purpose of the russian radar stations directed on the middle east (according to official statements, USA is afraid of threat from outside Iran, isn't so?). But US government has refused this offer. So now neither at russian nor the western political and military experts do not have doubts for what purpose the East Europe countries are accepted in the NATO and against which country the american antimissile defence is directed.

That's why Russia resumed regular high-altitude long-range bomber practice flights over the Pacific Ocean. And this flexing of military muscle, as humanbean234 say, didn't just randomly: expanding the NATO on the east and building military objects around borders of Russia, the American government compels Russia to take the answer-back measures. Doing so the government of the USA does not do a life of Americans more safely - absolutely on the contrary. And i don't want to russian people thought about United States as about the enemy, but throughout last several years the US government does for this purpose all possible. And you must know, that some political forces in Russia (not Putin, of course some extremists and maybe some communists) play upon heartstrings of citizens to revive an image of America-enemy in human heads, like some american politicians want to american people always view Russia as the "bad guy". It is very dangerous political game! Because the USA and Russia possess the largest nuclear arsenals on the Earth. It is enough of these arsenals that the life has been destroyed on the Earth. Ten years ago i could not think that cold war will renew, but now it has occurred.

Anyway, i really glad that among americans there are people who prefer to think, analyze the facts and not to take on trust a words of politicians.

Oh my. So much of theoretizing emotionally about something vaguely known to them. That chinese proverb has some sense in it.

Truly, people, you REALLY think YOUR press only gives pure and white truth to you? Well, I congratulate your naivity.

But that line about COMMUNISTIC power is a real killer. Varus, do you still live 15 years in the past?



Those that have brains - do not, you may believe me. Every politic force lies - and our is no exception. But the majority of people here are shocked and outraged of what is going on. Firsthand against Georgia, but against USA as well. Will you be surprised if I say, that the majority of people is completely convinced, that Georgia is an american pet and the attack was actually ordered by the White House? Ridiculous? But that what people believe. Or were made to believe.

Anyway, whoever lies the most, the only thing that seems close to truth is that Georgian side started firing first. Whether ordered by your side or provoked by our or whatever may remain a mystery - lies and all that.

Sarya...I am really glad you said that. People in the US and the West in general believe that the information they get is truthful and unbiased. It is not true. I believe in the US there is probably more "access" to different sides of stories and thereby they availability for more truth is there...but it is usually not what is spead about by the mainstream media.

I have studied history for a long time. And it is written by the victors. I can not claim to know what all the Russia and Georgia feud is about. I know some and these peoples have an ancient animosity going on. I doubt they will all shake hands and be friends anytime soon.

However....as my Momma always said...there are 3 sides to every story. His side, her side and the truth..somewhere in the middle.

So I encourage my fellows to read, talk to people like Sarya that live a wee bit closer to the area, check on news articles other than the mainstream and give things a bit of thought. That way maybe..you wont get THE truth...but you will get a hell of a lot closer than before.

No need to pretend, someone did it for you, but unfortunately, I don't think they were joking:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_y...12173714AAaUvOI
Also, that is not the only person who is having trouble with this.

YAY PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!

[quote name='Sarya' date='Aug 13 2008, 03:49 PM' post='531443']
Oh my. So much of theoretizing emotionally about something vaguely known to them. That chinese proverb has some sense in it.

Truly, people, you REALLY think YOUR press only gives pure and white truth to you? Well, I congratulate your naivity.

But that line about COMMUNISTIC power is a real killer. Varus, do you still live 15 years in the past?


I don't know what are you talking about，and against whom? If you can't understand chinese proverb well, why not go and learn that language youself?

I usually receive news in italian, spanish, english presses, including chinese, of course. but you wouldn't think they lie to me together on purpose, would you?

I didn't see any communist here, I am a chinese but I am not communist, you are a russian you are not communist too, then, who is communist in this thread? the americans? sounds ridiculous.

I guess there must be somebodies trying to persuade me to fight against communism, but for what? for your arrogance and prejudice?

I'm tired of talking about too much.

desperado2008, there was a comment (possibly a joke) about communism domination in Russia earlier in the topic, which is obviously untrue. As well such a thing as current president of Russia Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, which is also untrue. But the first one is really much funnier.
Don't pay attention to those my words if they trouble you, they weren't directed at you.

And I don't yet see where did I not understand the proverb. Obviously not knowing of two such widely known facts causes doubt about knowledge of less obvious ones. And as in proverb the discussion is rather intense for this forum. Am I still wrong about it?

Of course! But many people believe that media and politicains speaks! That is why russian TV and russian radio was blocked in Georgia from the very beginning of the conflict. They even have blocked russian internet-sites, that georgian people did not know that Russia is not going to bomb peace cities. And when planes dumped bombs on military objects near some cities, people were in a panic! They have thought that bombardment of cities has begun! At the same time the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Georgia informed that Russia bombs peace cities. But it is a lie! Because neither russian military, nor the international observers have not confirmed it. What for to the international observers to lie? And when planes dumped bombs on military airdrome near to Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia, Ministry of Internal Affairs of Georgia informed that Russia bombs the city. How do you like this?! Saakashvili lay from the very beginning. He has declared that he wants to peacefully resolve the conflict, and yet at the night he attacked the South Ossetia.

Today Georgia's deputy interior minister report that convoy of "Russian" tanks left georgian city of Gori and were heading from the Gori toward the capital Tbilisi. Saakashvili has told CNN Wednesday that Russian forces are moving towards the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, and trying to encircle the city. "The Russians are encroaching upon the capital. They are making a circle. We will protect our capital until the last drop of our blood. We will never surrender to the Russians" - that's what he said. And he has added that that Georgian forces were stationed in and around Tbilisi and vowing an "all-out resistance" to the Russian forces.

But it was simply evacuation of a military technics which the Georgian army has leave on military base near city of Gori. And such statements Saakashvili do for the western media every day of the conflict !!! Yes, along toward evening the Georgian authorities have told that it was only evacuation. But many people all across the world heard that: "Breaking news! Russian tanks go to Tbilisi to assault the city!". And it's right after Russia has signed the agreement on cease-fire! Because CNN has told so. Because Associated Press, BBC and many others media has told so. It is information war. And it is dishonest. It is information distortion.

I am skeptical that this cease-fire is going to stop the war. The timing of the whole thing is now coincidence. I simply do not trust Putin and the Bush administration, especially after seeing those two talking during the opening ceremonies of the Olympics.



Then I ask, where is the UN in all of this? Then I remember, I asked that same question in 2003 with Iraq, and I knew world politics better in 2001, I would have asked that same thing with Afghanistan.

Hey, not all Americans are ignorant to what is actually going on. I live in the USA, and I'm well aware that Russia is not at fault here.

Just wanted to ask. Is that true that Bush "accidentally forgot" to mention the oesetian and russian victims of the first attack and that words about them were erased from Putin's speech? Really, just interesting.

international politic is complicated and dirty, just remember please, without USA's support in advance，how dare Georgia provoke russia? now USA is preparing for invading Iran, that could explain something.

Well, I don't really doubt that. Just wanted to be sure about that particular piece of dirt.

Off-topic: The US is not preparing to invade Iran. It's a complicated thing to explain, but I can positively state that we will not be invading Iran. I'll send you a PM on this, since there's currently no thread on that topic.

I'm not sure about the Bush speech, and I don't have time to search the web for a transcript. Do we have any other Americans on this thread who'll volunteer for that task?

I'm also interested in how you know. Obviously it would be a disaster to us, but frankly I can't see that stopping nationalistic war-mongerers..

Me too. Even if Moscow and Washington will not use anymore Georgia in their political games, enmity between ossetian and georgian people will not disappear anywhere. That is why this conflict on Caucasus was inadmissible. Conflicts on caucasus always proceed for years. As an example it is possible to take the conflict between armenians and azerbaijanians for a Nagorno-Karabagh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabagh If you read this article, you'll see that the situation is very similar to the conflict between Georgia, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Difference is that Armenia and Azerdajdzhan are two countries with close military and economic possibilities. But in Abkhazia and South Ossetia lives in the sum about 300 thousand people. Against Georgia with its 4,5 million they do not have any chances without the aid of the world community. But, unfortunately, only Russia has agreed to help them to defend independence. I heard, the Minister for Foreign Affairs of France said that EU is going to direct the international observers to a conflict zone. I think, it's a really good sign.


Yes, probably, it is so. Russia always was against military operation in Iran. But now, when everybody think that Russia "has made aggression to Georgia", nobody will to listen Russia, if the military operation in Iran will begin. And not only that!


- that's what i spoke in >>this post<<. The Polish government long delayed the answer and doubted. The conflict in Georgia has pushed them to the prompt this conclusion of the contract.



I really hope that it is not new war beginning.

Just a couple little things Ive noticed on re-reading this thread:
First off - Timi and Deperado. It's summer holidays, boys. Shouldn't you really be taking a break from Smart Arse School? Nosisab, my old friend and sparring partner, made a perfectly decent joke about 'Confused', and 'Confucius' (sp). And , to crack smartarse about his way of expressing himself: i think that he is making a very good job of moving from the Brazilian, his native tongue - which he is too much of a gent to point out to you and cause you rightly earned embarassment - to English, in which he expresses himself quite sublimely, for those willing to take a moment to appreciate it. And Timi. Really. Having a go at a Goddess? Come on. I really must make room for you in my private quarters, and where the sun dont shine. Ever. So... back off, if you two haven't already. There's the good boys.

'Nob0dy'. Now...why does that name carry about it the scent of 1984? And, why, before this little conversation about the rights and wrongs of Russian involvement in Whereeverthefekitis, have we never seen you on any of our forums, before. Why am I so tempted to ask which branch of the Russian Diplomatic Service, and one of the blacker branches i would think, it is that you are employed by? There just seems to be , with reference to your extremely well machine translated utterances, something so in lock-step with every briefing I have heard the Russian Foreign Service spokespersons give. Funny thing that. Oh, and by the way, the Times, UK, is a joke. Has been since Murdoch took it over. And always acts as his mouth piece when it comes to comment on anything that may affect his vast global holdings. So...do your home work.

Oh...should I , after posting this, contract some mysterious radiation related illness, or have a contretemp with an umbrella...would some one please point the Rozzers in 'Nob0dy''s direction.

chesto, don't take it too much serious, this is a game forum, we talk just because we want to talk, it's that simple. are you really so naive to suspect that somebody wants to get something from people like you? learn yourself, mortal.

by the way, I have no intention of teasing Nosisab.

Sarya, my last job in the U.S. Armed Forces was first-alert of nuclear attack against the United States. We had 60 seconds to get a report sent, or we were out of a job.

I personally witnessed the U.S.S.R. launch both land-based nuclear ICBMs and SLBMs (submarine nuclear launch). You would not believe the number of alarms and klaxons sounding. We had to determine if Russia was going to start World War III, or not.

We also tracked those ICBMs & SLBMs the whole time they were in flight, to ensure they weren't going to hit another sovereign nation. If we discovered Great Britain was going to be hit, don't you think our President would be on the hotline to their Prime Minister in a heartbeat?

I don't expect a civilian to fully grasp the entire idea, but when you are personally responsible for the security and well-being of an entire nation, you take your duty extremely serious.

We had to be right 100% of the time. Our reports go directly to the President of the United States.

I also did duty on the space side. Every single launch done by Russia was done without any prior notice, yet the United States always announces their launches.

Sarya, here's something else you may not know. We have a program called "TIP" (Tracking and Impact Prediction). It sends out alerts on any object in Earth orbit that has a 10% or better chance of surviving atmospheric reentry and striking the ground.

Did you know that the United States regularly informs Moscow of these objects? Do you even know why? It's because your equipment is so antiquated that it gives out false alerts of nuclear attack, when it's only a satellite falling into the atmosphere. So we have to inform your military so they won't start a war over a falling satellite.

We were briefed that Russia was one of the most important reasons to track these objects. The way they fall is similar to a ballistic missile's reentry, and the Russian equipment isn't good at discriminating between falling satellites vs. real nukes.

Every time we track one of these objects that are going to fall, the mainframes instantly compute the new orbit and the prediction of where it could impact. We have people stationed all over the world to keep track of these falling satellites.

Some of these people are dedicated enough to go to places that are remote locations, meaning you cannot take your family with you. So they sacrifice their family life to protect Russia as well from these falling satellites.

Chesto: i have been assured that somebody will necessarily ask such questions. So, i will try to answer.


I really don't understand that you wished to tell this phrase. I am not strong in English and as I already spoke, I use machine translation in both directions.


All for the same reason: I badly understand English. I more or less can read. But write on a foreign language much more difficult, than to read. I think, you and itself perfectly know it. That's why I wrote nothing. Besides, if you look at date of my registration you will see that I have been registered here not too for a long time. Why I have started to write now? Because the problem discussed in this topic very much excites me, because my country is the direct participant of this conflict.


What do you mean "the Times, UK, is a joke"? You wish to tell, what Times expresses someone's interests? So it there is nobody not news - ANY mass-media expresses someone's interests! Only having studied many of sources of the information which express interests of the DIFFERENT (OPPOSITE) parties, it is possible to be more or less assured that you know the truth. Whether you wish to tell that Times expresses interests of Russia? Who such Murdoch I have learnt just today having glanced in Wiki. Whether you wish to tell, that Murdoch is somehow connected with the Kremlin? I think, it is simply silly ...




The Kremlin has bought all of them? Or Russia can't be not a "bad guy" because it can be never? And, as i understand, the main question:


Do you love your country? What would you do, if the majority of mass-media named your country an aggressor though you are assured, what it not so? You saw, what some people, especially from the some former republics of USSR write at the Russian forums where this war also is discussed, and very actively? They very scared. These people names Russia an Evil Empire, an aggressor. They even have called into question the fact that Georgians the first have attacked Ossetia and say that Tskhinvali has not been attacked at all, and peace people were not lost! But YOURS journalists were in Tskhinvali and they saw all by their eyes! You will deny, what Saakashvili constantly lies from TV-screen? I do not wish to confirm, but in those statements of George Bush which I saw, really was not present words that it's Georgia, who starts this war, and that as a result of it peace people were lost. No words of a regret that peace people were lost. Always that Russia has "encroached on territorial integrity of Georgia" is said only, and anywhere is not said that Ossetins and Abkhasians do not wish to be a part of Georgia. I simply want to that people in the west, which this conflict excites, that they knew not only the point of view of Tbilisi, but also the point of view of South Ossetia.

As to the translator, you can register on mail.ru and use this service for free.

Varus Torvyn: very interestingly. And i think that nobody from usual Russian does not know about it.

Varus, have you even read what I wrote? I really said nothing about your attitude. And the last thing I seek is to offend someone. Do you have a different approach?

You see, what I was saying is that you're wrong about the "communism in Russia" thing. You see, the Soviet Union ended when I was ten years old - sixteen years ago. Why do I believe that even after all you said? Easy. Communism is not a particular set of rulers in the country, it's an ideology - something that has to affect the citizens, whatever their government has in mind and whether it believes in this ideology or not is not really important. And I may tell you that we do not live by it.
No, there's still communistic party, it's even "the second in power", but, well, I haven't seen anything of note coming from them for years. Oh, meetings and demonstrations, yes, cool.

To this very day, Russia refuses to give any prior notice of their space and missile launches. We are the ones that have to inform every other friendly nation what you are doing.

Russia does not participate in the TIP program, either. We do it all, with the exception of the Canadians, who work alongside with us for the defense of North America.

Mmm, so? What does it have to do with what i said?

Well, I can't expect everyone to understand the duplicity and deception that we have had to combat ever since Russia changed from czarism to communism.

Deception? You say about it to me? After all those accidentally missing facts in your press?

By the way, Sarya, I don't blame the regular Russians. It's your government I cannot stand. They have a horrible record on the way they treat the Russian people. Look at what they did to the Ukraine. Cut off their natural gas supplies.

The European Union goofed bigtime. If they hadn't voiced an opinion against Ukraine, Georgia, and others, they'd all be in NATO now, and Russia wouldn't have dared go into Georgia if they had been a NATO member.

Have you been to Ukraine? I have. Personally. Just a week ago, so I was there when the attack started. I heard What they think of THEIR government. Most do not trust their president at all, less to say their prime minister. And those who directly state that Ukraine do not like Russia and that Ukraine doesn't want to pay for gas she receives is their GOVERNMENT. The prime minister, in particular.

For all those soviet years every soviet republic including Georgia and Ukraine received resourses for free. Does anyone receive anything for free in modern world, except the humanitary aid or whatever it is called?

I'm willing to bet that the Ukrainians who have a successful business or good jobs like their form of government.

Sarya, in the U.S., we know who to listen to for news. We have proven which TV news stations tell the truth and which ones lie and hide the truth. There are news stories almost every day about a newspaper or magazine printing lies or half-truths, so we are well-aware of who we can trust and distrust.

I don't doubt that. We have a similar practice. And I don't trust Putin, though I still believe he is our best choice - others... well... hard to explain. Let's say... incompetent. Or unwilling.

But I can imagine such a situation when the event happening is so important that no press in country will be able to give information different from official for that country. I believe we had such situations ourselves.

I couldn't care less if she's a girl, a guy, or a hermaphrodite. She made an ignorant sexist comment, and I addressed it.


Yeah, because I'm sure Russia would spend their time and money convincing a video game message board full of people that have no say in this matter of their innocence.

And how does the name "Nobody" relate to 1984 at all?

You can call me a smartarse all you like, but when I see people make comments such as that, I'm not going to say that they are anything but preposterous.

"And how does the name "Nobody" relate to 1984 at all? "


I guess he means George Orwell.

If you honestly believe that the majority of the American people have any clue who is telling the truth in their news (assume they pay any attention, which I have my doubts) I would seriously like to know what you are smoking--and can I please have some. The fact that "Fox News" and "THe O'Reiley Factor" are still on the air proves that.

Liberalism. So refreshing. Not.

Ahh, you right wingers. You always take your eye off the ball to have a go at the liberals, when it's the 'spooks' that are trying to bend your brain that you should be concerned about.
'spooks': UK term for 'agents', usually of a foreign power.

“Too young, too simple, sometimes naive.”

--- Jiang ex president of china