Correct me if I am wrong, but the exact birth date and age of Legolas at the time of the War of the Ring are unknown. But he does seem to be a very wise elf, which implies old age. Therefore while you can not play as him (I think the mod would suck if you could), you might just be able to encounter him if you journey into Mirkwood and ask to see the prince.
BTW,
I was re-reading The Council of Elrond chapter, and I stumbled upon this quote:
Full Version: Legolas
| QUOTE |
| 'Some, Galdor,' said Gandalf, 'would think the tidings of Gloin, and the pursuit of Frodo, proof enough that the halfling's trove is a thing of great worth to the Enemy. Yet it is a ring. What then? The Nine the Nazgul keep. The Seven are taken or destroyed.' At this Gloin stirred, but did not speak. 'The Three we know of. What then is this one that he desires so much? |
Did anyone else notice this? What do you think?
*waits for Daerk and his almighty smack-down*
=)
Actually, I noticed that too, since I read that chapter not too long ago, BUT from my limited knowledge, I think the most of the seven are, well... taken or destroyed.
-val
=)
Actually, I noticed that too, since I read that chapter not too long ago, BUT from my limited knowledge, I think the most of the seven are, well... taken or destroyed.
-val
The last of the Dwarf rings was lost by Thrain II (father of Thorin Oakenshield from The Hobbit) when he was captured by Sauron near Mirkwood and imprisoned in Dol Guldor. Gloin was part of Thorin's quest with Biblo.. perhaps thats as far as the link goes.
The following is from The Encyclopedia of Arda.
| QUOTE |
| Those of the Rings of Power that Sauron gave to the Dwarves to seduce them to his service. The Dwarves proved too hardy to be lured in this way, though, and the Rings did little more than increase their native lust for gold. By the end of the Third Age, Sauron had recovered three of the Seven Rings to himself, and the other four had been consumed by dragons. |
I don't think Tolkien gets any more specificabout the ones "consumed by dragons." Perhaps one of the Dragon's was Smaug, and since he killed one of the dwarven ring-bearers, people assumed that he destroyed the ring as well.
The ring might have been added to Smaug's great collection of treasures, and then found by Gloin after the treasures were recovered by Thorin Oakenshield's company.
Daerk, we could really use your expertise here (please.)
Well, none of the Rings (for Dwarves) were in Gloin's possesion. He stired because he thought that Thorin had the last Ring (or something to that extent) but Gandalf breaks it to him that when he found Thorin's Grandfather in Dol Guldur, all he had was a *Map* (IIRC?) Sauron had taken the Ring from him already and left Thrain a witless and broken Dwarf.
All of the Seven are accounted for, three to the Dark Lord and four to the bellies of Dragons. The Nine are worn by the Ringwraiths and the Three Elven Rings were hidden as well for they were the only ones untouched by Sauron's hand.
Even if Gloin had the last Dwarven Ring it would not have mattered. Their Rings delt with treasure and greed, and increasing their personel stashs. Such a Ring would have availed little before the power of th Dark Lord.
All of the Seven are accounted for, three to the Dark Lord and four to the bellies of Dragons. The Nine are worn by the Ringwraiths and the Three Elven Rings were hidden as well for they were the only ones untouched by Sauron's hand.
Even if Gloin had the last Dwarven Ring it would not have mattered. Their Rings delt with treasure and greed, and increasing their personel stashs. Such a Ring would have availed little before the power of th Dark Lord.
Agreed, Ancalagon. It would have served as little more than a tracking beacon for Sauron. The dwarves, although not immune their rings' powers, did not respond to them as Sauron may have intended.
I am saying that Gloin may be in possession of one of the four thought to be destroyed by dragons.
No, dude he isn't in possession. He stirred because he thought that the one Thorin's GP had wasn't lost (it was, Sauron claimed it from Thrain when he captured him).
It's ok, I thought the same but then re-read the chapter and looked at the histories and saw that all the four were gone. If Gandalf says Four went into the Dragon's belly, then four went into the Dragon's belly. You don't argue with Gandalf
It's ok, I thought the same but then re-read the chapter and looked at the histories and saw that all the four were gone. If Gandalf says Four went into the Dragon's belly, then four went into the Dragon's belly. You don't argue with Gandalf
Gandalf is not perfect. He failed to see that Saruman was turning evil until it was too late, why is it beyond reason that he made another mistake?
To answer the first question about Legolas being in the mod... Like I(and many others) said before if the timeline is right and its in the book then it'll be in MEmod... Now if you really want to go into the dangerous depths of Mirkwood to find an elf that you may never actually get near enough to... good luck to you.
| QUOTE (Stefanzhr @ Mar 4 2004, 02:36 PM) |
| Gandalf is not perfect. He failed to see that Saruman was turning evil until it was too late, why is it beyond reason that he made another mistake? |
.. he has a point there..
Good on you for finding that BTW.
Well, if this is still about Legolas...didn't he predict the death of the Ring Wraith King as (paraphrasing here, mind you, it's rather late for me) "No Man shall slay/fell him"? If so, and the timeline of MeMod is in accord with his existence, then it seems likely he will also exist-as stated by Rynos. I suppose everything boils down now to the matter of timeline, especially having read one of Suzerain's latest posts...
Not too sure, but wasn't it some Elf from back in the day? I think it starts with a 'G' but all knowledge of anything Elvish seems to have fled me...
-val
-val
Not that this has much to do with the Legolas issue (the only Elf i can think of with a name beginning with G is Gil-Galad, but i don't think it was him), but i thought i read that Gandalf did spot that Saruman had gone all evil, and fortified the Shire guard because of it? Or am i just being foolish?
He suspected, but it all was confirmed when Saruman locked him up on the roof of Orthanc.
The point is (concerning Gloin) is that he didn't have one of the four Rings that were lost. Again, it would only serve as a beacon to the Dark Lord and would be pretty worthless. In The Council of Elrond it is stated that even if they did have one of the Dwarven Rings, it would do them little or no good, since the Seven's purposes were only to increase the coffers of the Dwarves...
The point is (concerning Gloin) is that he didn't have one of the four Rings that were lost. Again, it would only serve as a beacon to the Dark Lord and would be pretty worthless. In The Council of Elrond it is stated that even if they did have one of the Dwarven Rings, it would do them little or no good, since the Seven's purposes were only to increase the coffers of the Dwarves...
the elf who predicted that the witch-king would not be slain "by the hand of Man" was glorfindel, at the battle of Fornost, when the captain of gondor's expeditionary force was routed by the witch-king.
the same Glorfindel that aided frodo in the wilderness, and slew (and was slain by) the Balrog Gothmog during the fall of Gondolin, the Hidden city in beleriand.
suz
the same Glorfindel that aided frodo in the wilderness, and slew (and was slain by) the Balrog Gothmog during the fall of Gondolin, the Hidden city in beleriand.
suz
| QUOTE |
| Now if you really want to go into the dangerous depths of Mirkwood to find an elf that you may never actually get near enough to... good luck to you. |
I don't think Mirkwood became the dark scary place as described in The Hobbit until Dol Guldur was built by the Necromancer (Sauron.)
Also, suzerain, that might not be the same Glorfindel. (To find out more click here and scroll down to "The Problem of the Two Glorfindels")
the two glorfindels is just one of tolkien's classic contradictions. but if you read a few details in the obscure books, there's hints.
never said one way or the other, though.
Suz.
never said one way or the other, though.
Suz.
Actually, the problem of the Two Glorfindles was solved...wasn't it?
IIRC, it was the same Glorfindel who fell while fighting a Balrog (subsequently taking the bastard with him). As was stated before by Tolkien, Elves could be reincarnated (of sorts). When they die, their body dies, but their fea or spirit, remains intact and goes to the hall of Mandos. After a while (read 'thousands of years') they can go back to Middle Earth and be 're-born' and as they mature they'll regain the memories of Old and of their previous life.
IIRC, such was Glorfindel's case.
So suze, I thought that the problem of Two Glorfindels was a definate 'case closed'? If there's more to it please tell me or inform me of the books, I would like to read more of these Classic Contradictions
IIRC, it was the same Glorfindel who fell while fighting a Balrog (subsequently taking the bastard with him). As was stated before by Tolkien, Elves could be reincarnated (of sorts). When they die, their body dies, but their fea or spirit, remains intact and goes to the hall of Mandos. After a while (read 'thousands of years') they can go back to Middle Earth and be 're-born' and as they mature they'll regain the memories of Old and of their previous life.
IIRC, such was Glorfindel's case.
So suze, I thought that the problem of Two Glorfindels was a definate 'case closed'? If there's more to it please tell me or inform me of the books, I would like to read more of these Classic Contradictions
Glorfindel from LotR was named after the famous Glorfindel, sure I read that somewhere. Different people entirely.
Erm, not to sound pompous, but you're wrong.
I too thought that it was a different Glorfindel, but upon research and reading letters and debates on the subject, I came to the conclusion that it is the same Glorfindel. If you read the Silmarillion, you would find that Elves have something very similar to re-incarnation. When they die, their bodies die but their spirits (or fea) pass on to the halls of Mandos where they stay for however long. After they have spent a considerable amount of time in Mandos (and after much reflection) they can choose as to whether or not they can return to Middle-Earth (most only have this choice if they lived a virtuous life, so note that Feanor didn't get a chance to return...).
Once they are 'reborn' they do not remember their previous life immediately. They gain pieces of their old memories as they mature, and finally recall all of their past life when they become an adult, again. So they have the fortune of living duel lives and having that much more experience in the world of Middle-Earth.
Thus the same happened with Glorfindel, his fea returned to Middle-Earth and he was 'reborn'. They weren't two completley different Elves, I assure you. Read the Silmarillion, and any other books aside from the LotR, and go online to The Encyclopedia of Arda and do a search on Glorfindel.
I too thought that it was a different Glorfindel, but upon research and reading letters and debates on the subject, I came to the conclusion that it is the same Glorfindel. If you read the Silmarillion, you would find that Elves have something very similar to re-incarnation. When they die, their bodies die but their spirits (or fea) pass on to the halls of Mandos where they stay for however long. After they have spent a considerable amount of time in Mandos (and after much reflection) they can choose as to whether or not they can return to Middle-Earth (most only have this choice if they lived a virtuous life, so note that Feanor didn't get a chance to return...).
Once they are 'reborn' they do not remember their previous life immediately. They gain pieces of their old memories as they mature, and finally recall all of their past life when they become an adult, again. So they have the fortune of living duel lives and having that much more experience in the world of Middle-Earth.
Thus the same happened with Glorfindel, his fea returned to Middle-Earth and he was 'reborn'. They weren't two completley different Elves, I assure you. Read the Silmarillion, and any other books aside from the LotR, and go online to The Encyclopedia of Arda and do a search on Glorfindel.
Moreover, there was a question in the ME trivia (I don't know right now who asked it, but I think it was Daerk, and that would make the answer even more believable 
), in this same forum, that was something like "who was the only firstborn in Middle-Earth in the time of the War of the Ring".
The question might not be the same, but the answer was "Glorfindel".
So he surely is the same Glorfindel.
EDIT: after thoroughly searching the aforementioned ME trivia, I've found on page 7 that Daerk asks "who is the only Vanyar living in Endor in the Third Age". In case you wanted to know, we all went for Galadriel and Elrond, but Morgoth was the one who answered it correctly
), in this same forum, that was something like "who was the only firstborn in Middle-Earth in the time of the War of the Ring".The question might not be the same, but the answer was "Glorfindel".
So he surely is the same Glorfindel.
EDIT: after thoroughly searching the aforementioned ME trivia, I've found on page 7 that Daerk asks "who is the only Vanyar living in Endor in the Third Age". In case you wanted to know, we all went for Galadriel and Elrond, but Morgoth was the one who answered it correctly
Quite correct.
Glorfindel is a Vanyar, and is the same Glorfindel in a different body from the Fall of Gondolin.
Also I believe someone above mentioned the only elf with a name starting with a G was Gil-Galad... erm... no.
Glorfindel
Gildor
Galdor
Galadriel
just to name a few popular elves.
-- D
Glorfindel is a Vanyar, and is the same Glorfindel in a different body from the Fall of Gondolin.
Also I believe someone above mentioned the only elf with a name starting with a G was Gil-Galad... erm... no.
Glorfindel
Gildor
Galdor
Galadriel
just to name a few popular elves.
-- D
| QUOTE (Ancalagon @ Mar 4 2004, 09:56 PM) |
| Erm, not to sound pompous, but you're wrong. I too thought that it was a different Glorfindel, but upon research and reading letters and debates on the subject, I came to the conclusion that it is the same Glorfindel. If you read the Silmarillion, you would find that Elves have something very similar to re-incarnation. When they die, their bodies die but their spirits (or fea) pass on to the halls of Mandos where they stay for however long. After they have spent a considerable amount of time in Mandos (and after much reflection) they can choose as to whether or not they can return to Middle-Earth (most only have this choice if they lived a virtuous life, so note that Feanor didn't get a chance to return...). Once they are 'reborn' they do not remember their previous life immediately. They gain pieces of their old memories as they mature, and finally recall all of their past life when they become an adult, again. So they have the fortune of living duel lives and having that much more experience in the world of Middle-Earth. Thus the same happened with Glorfindel, his fea returned to Middle-Earth and he was 'reborn'. They weren't two completley different Elves, I assure you. Read the Silmarillion, and any other books aside from the LotR, and go online to The Encyclopedia of Arda and do a search on Glorfindel. |
I read the Silmarillion last year, but must have missed all this talk about reincarnation. Wonder how I managed that...
As i know Legolas can only be in the mod if the Timeline in the mod is less than 520 years away from the Followship of the ring.... at the time when they leave from lothlorien Legolas is 520 years old.. so if the mods take place before 520 years from the ring was destroyed then Legolas is not in the mod.
Mae Govannen,
Legolas may not be included, but Galadriel has to, because she came with the Noldor across Araman (correct me if iīm wrong, iīve read the books long time ago)
.
So donīt go to Mirkwood, try to reach Lorien and get an impression of the most wonderful creature on middleearth (imho )
PS: Sorry for bad english.
Greetings from Germany
Curufinwe
Legolas may not be included, but Galadriel has to, because she came with the Noldor across Araman (correct me if iīm wrong, iīve read the books long time ago)
.So donīt go to Mirkwood, try to reach Lorien and get an impression of the most wonderful creature on middleearth (imho
)PS: Sorry for bad english.
Greetings from Germany
Curufinwe
| QUOTE |
| As i know Legolas can only be in the mod if the Timeline in the mod is less than 520 years away from the Followship of the ring.... at the time when they leave from lothlorien Legolas is 520 years old.. so if the mods take place before 520 years from the ring was destroyed then Legolas is not in the mod. |
Where did you get that information from? I have never read anywhere that he was 520 years old. As far as we know Legolas Greenleaf and the Legolas in the last battle of Gondolin could be the same incarnation.
However, nothing in his speech or manner of actions hints of such a long history.
But people have suggested here that they donīt remember their past life(s) until they have become old.
What you should be asking yourself is WHY should Legolas be in the mod.
If you find a good answer then ask the crew to implement it in the mod.
They should find no canonical material that suggests it to be impossible.
I think you're confusing Legolas with Glorfindel. As far as I know there was no Legolas at the battle of Gondolin, and this past discussion has been about whether Glorfindel of Gondolin was the same as Glorfindel from Rivendell...
pharzon..
pharzon..
| QUOTE (Krelian @ May 14 2004, 03:50 PM) | ||
Where did you get that information from? I have never read anywhere that he was 520 years old. As far as we know Legolas Greenleaf and the Legolas in the last battle of Gondolin could be the same incarnation. However, nothing in his speech or manner of actions hints of such a long history. But people have suggested here that they donīt remember their past life(s) until they have become old. What you should be asking yourself is WHY should Legolas be in the mod. If you find a good answer then ask the crew to implement it in the mod. They should find no canonical material that suggests it to be impossible. |
In my Lord of the Rings book number 2. there stands that Legolas is 520 years old.
You mean The Two Towers? I just can't remember is he 520 or 521 
.
.
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