Am finding it impossible to get through the shields of battleships using 5 heavy missile launchers on a battlecruiser.
Is there any way one can destroy a battleship using a battlecruiser, with no external help? (and with skills that are not all at level 5)
Full Version: Handling Battleships
An update on this.
I tried with a Drake and Ferox- but could not get through the shields of the battleships at Tvink. Possibly a little later in the game when I'm dealing out more damage with heavy missiles.
Decided to try a battleship. Managed to scrape enough for a Scorpion. Set it up for passive tanking, with 4 torpedoes, large smart bomb and afterburners (tried the MWD but it was too fast
), and put all the drones that I had (and never used) in the bay.
After a ten minute assault with all the above (during which I accidentally destroyed 6 of my drones with the smart bomb) I managed to get through the shields of the battleship. This was after I had tried assault with various combinations of torpedoes and learned that these ships were sensitive to basically only one kind of torpedo.
So it appears that at present I am going to need at least a battleship to destroy battleships. The major disappointment was to find out that my torpedoes were traveling only 15km, instead of the 60km that my heavy missiles were. Thus the need for afterburners. And the need to get cruise missiles. I love the way in which in Eve you keep thinking that I'm happy with what I got, and then the need for something else crops up.
I tried with a Drake and Ferox- but could not get through the shields of the battleships at Tvink. Possibly a little later in the game when I'm dealing out more damage with heavy missiles.
Decided to try a battleship. Managed to scrape enough for a Scorpion. Set it up for passive tanking, with 4 torpedoes, large smart bomb and afterburners (tried the MWD but it was too fast
), and put all the drones that I had (and never used) in the bay. After a ten minute assault with all the above (during which I accidentally destroyed 6 of my drones with the smart bomb) I managed to get through the shields of the battleship. This was after I had tried assault with various combinations of torpedoes and learned that these ships were sensitive to basically only one kind of torpedo.
So it appears that at present I am going to need at least a battleship to destroy battleships. The major disappointment was to find out that my torpedoes were traveling only 15km, instead of the 60km that my heavy missiles were. Thus the need for afterburners. And the need to get cruise missiles. I love the way in which in Eve you keep thinking that I'm happy with what I got, and then the need for something else crops up.
Sorry I didn't notice your original post!
Get EFT (Eve Fitting Tool), fit out your drake how you currently have it fit and copy it to the clipboard so we can all see it. I'll tell you where you're going wrong (if you are) and provide you with some fitting pointers.
On a side note don't use a Scorpion for ratting/mission running! They don't have bonuses to damage or missiles and they're primarily for PVP (one of, if not THE best Electronic Warfare ship in the game). If you want a PVE battleship as Caldari then you definately want a Raven.
Get EFT (Eve Fitting Tool), fit out your drake how you currently have it fit and copy it to the clipboard so we can all see it. I'll tell you where you're going wrong (if you are) and provide you with some fitting pointers.
On a side note don't use a Scorpion for ratting/mission running! They don't have bonuses to damage or missiles and they're primarily for PVP (one of, if not THE best Electronic Warfare ship in the game). If you want a PVE battleship as Caldari then you definately want a Raven.
QUOTE(Dark0ne @ Jul 26 2008, 04:48 PM) 
If you want a PVE battleship as Caldari then you definately want a Raven.
I was saving for a Raven when I realized that these ships sell for the same price as you buy them- so as soon as I touched 50 million ISK I bought the scorpion, and as soon as I make another 35 million I plan to sell the Scorpion and get the Raven. This is GREAT. I love it, as it lets you try all the ships.
Will get EFT and post the information.
Have got EFT- and after a while managed to install my character and fit the Drake. But I just could not copy the info. In the meantime I hit the 80 mil. mark and bought the Raven. So the issue now is of fitting the Raven.
I at once fitted it with torpedoes and set out to destroy the battleships at Tvink. I managed to get through the shields but with the combined firepower of the battleship and 6 or 7 frigates the shields gave way, and I warped out with some armour damage. Was using a passive tank- which I like as I do not want to worry about turning on a booster or paying any sort of attention to the shields other than note that they have hit 20% and it time to exit.
In stark contrast to my philosophy, I next tried a set up with an XL shield booster, ballistic control, but this was a disaster as well. Though I managed to destroy the battleship, but the capacitor recharge rate was crap thus no boost the last few seconds (again had not hit the small targets to keep the test similar), and I escaped with half armour damage, but having got the battleship.
This experience reinforced my philosophy and I have now done the follwing set up: (cannot copy, thus the image)
I did reasonably well with this, but the shields gave way when about 25 frigates attacked me. I need serious help with setting up my ship. Keep in mind that I know zilch about jamming/electronic warfare (and most other things)
I at once fitted it with torpedoes and set out to destroy the battleships at Tvink. I managed to get through the shields but with the combined firepower of the battleship and 6 or 7 frigates the shields gave way, and I warped out with some armour damage. Was using a passive tank- which I like as I do not want to worry about turning on a booster or paying any sort of attention to the shields other than note that they have hit 20% and it time to exit.
In stark contrast to my philosophy, I next tried a set up with an XL shield booster, ballistic control, but this was a disaster as well. Though I managed to destroy the battleship, but the capacitor recharge rate was crap thus no boost the last few seconds (again had not hit the small targets to keep the test similar), and I escaped with half armour damage, but having got the battleship.
This experience reinforced my philosophy and I have now done the follwing set up: (cannot copy, thus the image)
I did reasonably well with this, but the shields gave way when about 25 frigates attacked me. I need serious help with setting up my ship. Keep in mind that I know zilch about jamming/electronic warfare (and most other things)
Getting into a BS doesn't require a lot of skillpoints - flying a battleship well does. What are your shieldtanking skills, capacitor skills and missile skills at?
Battleships are generally terrible at killing small ships - if you're facing a lot of small ships in your hostile encounters it might be worth bringing along a corp mate in a frigate killing ship, or start the encounter off in a small ship, kill the frigates, then switch ships.
One thing you might try is fitting damage specific shield hardeners (I don't use them since pretty much all my ships are armour-tanking, so can't give any more specific advice on what types, sorry!)
How many ships are you trying to tank? Are you getting aggro from one spawn, or from several?
Battleships are generally terrible at killing small ships - if you're facing a lot of small ships in your hostile encounters it might be worth bringing along a corp mate in a frigate killing ship, or start the encounter off in a small ship, kill the frigates, then switch ships.
One thing you might try is fitting damage specific shield hardeners (I don't use them since pretty much all my ships are armour-tanking, so can't give any more specific advice on what types, sorry!)
How many ships are you trying to tank? Are you getting aggro from one spawn, or from several?
Have been playing only 3.5 months (first 10 days I did not even know that skills had to be trained- just thought that new ones need to be trained once and then it would depend on the in-game use)- so long way to go with the skills...
There are multiple spawn sites in this area- usually only one is triggered off- but if 2 or 3 are set off, then tanking becomes a problem. Each spawn area consists of about 8-10 frigates, and some spawn sites have one or two battleships as well.
Massive killing/salvaging operation here over the last few days helped me get the money for the battleship. I was doing very well in a Drake and Ferox here- passive tanking. Have no idea about damage types and hardeners- so am at a loss. T
he small ships are a pain- I tried drones and a large smart bomb and both were great- though have to be careful ALSO very importantly the capacitor recharge rate is zilch with all the shield power relays- thus afterburners and smartbombs have VERY limited use. With not being able to use afterburners after a while I had great problems closing in on the battleships (using torpedoes).
My passive tanking philosophy which gave satisfactory results on the Drake/ferox does not appear to work that well with the Raven.
The requested skills:
Samroski
Attributes
Intelligence: 19.44
Perception: 18.36
Charisma: 11.88
Willpower: 18.36
Memory: 18.36
Electronics
Electronic Warfare
Electronics
Electronics Upgrades
Frequency Modulation
Long Distance Jamming
Long Range Targeting
Propulsion Jamming
Sensor Linking
Signature Analysis
Survey
There are multiple spawn sites in this area- usually only one is triggered off- but if 2 or 3 are set off, then tanking becomes a problem. Each spawn area consists of about 8-10 frigates, and some spawn sites have one or two battleships as well.
Massive killing/salvaging operation here over the last few days helped me get the money for the battleship. I was doing very well in a Drake and Ferox here- passive tanking. Have no idea about damage types and hardeners- so am at a loss. T
he small ships are a pain- I tried drones and a large smart bomb and both were great- though have to be careful ALSO very importantly the capacitor recharge rate is zilch with all the shield power relays- thus afterburners and smartbombs have VERY limited use. With not being able to use afterburners after a while I had great problems closing in on the battleships (using torpedoes).
My passive tanking philosophy which gave satisfactory results on the Drake/ferox does not appear to work that well with the Raven.
The requested skills:
Samroski
Attributes
Intelligence: 19.44
Perception: 18.36
Charisma: 11.88
Willpower: 18.36
Memory: 18.36
Electronics
Electronic Warfare Electronics Electronics Upgrades Frequency Modulation Long Distance Jamming Long Range Targeting Propulsion Jamming Sensor Linking Signature Analysis Survey
There is a limit to the number of images in a post. 10 I believe 
so here are some of the others skills (Samroski)
so here are some of the others skills (Samroski)
I'm afraid I don't know very much about ravens, or caldari ships in general, but I would recommend the ship setups forum on Scrapheap Challenge. This thread discusses PvE raven setups.
Damage types depend on the rat (both damage done and damage type most susceptible to) - so which hardeners you'd fit would really depend on what type of enemy you're facing - and also which missiles and drones you'd be using.
There are also some useful sites for mission runner, which may have some additional information - http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports and http://eveinfo.com/missions/4/
Training up energy management and energy systems operation will help with cap for an active tank.
Even though I'm not too familiar with missiles, I noticed that you don't seem to have any BCUs fitted - you might want to fit those to increase your DPS.
Damage types depend on the rat (both damage done and damage type most susceptible to) - so which hardeners you'd fit would really depend on what type of enemy you're facing - and also which missiles and drones you'd be using.
There are also some useful sites for mission runner, which may have some additional information - http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports and http://eveinfo.com/missions/4/
Training up energy management and energy systems operation will help with cap for an active tank.
Even though I'm not too familiar with missiles, I noticed that you don't seem to have any BCUs fitted - you might want to fit those to increase your DPS.
In EFT click on the little down arrow next to the ship icon in the "current setup" box at the top, then select "copy to clipboard".
My level 4 mission running and ratting Raven is below, although for ratting I swap the Cap Power Relay for Inertia Stabilisers:
[Raven, Cruise Ratting]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Power Relay II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
This setup gives 38,500 effective HP, 510 DPS (with my missile skills) and my capacitor can last for 3m 3s with the shield booster on.
First of all the Raven is not a passive setup ship. The Drake is good for passives because it has bonuses to shield resistance and has a good shield recharge time, where as the Raven doesn't! This means you need to go for modules you have to activate because they provide more resistances and better survivability.
First of all get used to using active shield hardeners -- i.e. modules that you have to activate in order to work that offer boosts to resistance to damage types. In my setup that's the Heat Dissipation Field II and Ballistic Deflection Field II. Each module offers protection to only one damage type except the Invulnerability Field module which offers protection across all 4 but with lesser results. As you know there are 4 damage types in Eve. The rats in Eve do 2 of these 4 damage types depending on what "faction" the rats belong to. When you look at the mission information you can see what rats you'll be against and can then fit your hardeners accordingly depending on what faction you'll be up against. How do you know what factions do what damage?
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports
Bookmark this site. It contains information on all the missions available in Eve and tells you what damage the rats deal and what damage you should be dealing. It also provides you with handy information on how to complete the missions easily.
http://eve.grismar.net/rats/index.php
Bookmark this site. It contains defensive and offensive information on every rat in the game -- just enter the name of the rat into the search and it'll all come up.
You dont want to fit more than two of each hardener because they have diminishing results (the more you fit the less effect they'll have). But essentially hardeners stop you taking so much damage right from the get go. On that note because you're going to be using active hardeners don't get any more of the shield compensation skills because they only really buff passive shield hardeners.
Ok, that's hardeners sorted.
The XL Shield Booster is a must, but as you said your ship runs out of cap pretty quickly because it eats so much juice! The first thing you want to work towards are the Capacitor Control Circuit rigs...they're quite expensive at 15m a pop but they offer a 15% recharge bonuses with no drawback. They're important, because the low slot cap rechargers called Capacitor Power Relays offer 24% recharge rate but have a 11% drawback to the HP recovered while shield boosting -- so if you use too many your shield boosting becomes useless. Many pansy mission runners in Eve focus on making their ships "perma-tanked"...that means they can run all their modules without ever running out of cap. Unfortunately these setups aren't optimal; they'll nerf your DPS meaning you don't finish your missions very quickly and they can cost a lot too. Instead I go for a more offensive approach; you want to be dealing as much damage as possible so that the rats die quicker and you make more isk per hour. With my setup the capacitor lasts for 3m 3s which is plenty of time; you don't need to run your shield booster permanently anyway and you can just turn it on and off again as necessary.
A pointer incase you don't know; ships have an "optimal" stage at which cap and shield recharging is at it's fastest. This is around 40% - 50%. If you go under that or over that then the recharge time is slower, so when you're boosting you want to turn it off, if you can, when your cap hits 40% so that the cap is recharging as quickly as possible. Once you're up to 60% - 70% cap you can turn your shield booster on again if you need to and just rinse and repeat.
Next; frigates and cruisers! Cruise missiles are OK against cruisers but are a bit crappy against frigates; this is because of the signature radius of ships in Eve. Essentially small ships avoid damage from big guns because they are small. This is combated by the skill "Guided Missile Precision" but I wouldn't recommend getting that higher than level 2 any time soon. Therefore in missions you combat frigates with Drones. A Raven has enough space to hold 5 medium drones that can tear through frigates pretty quickly, meaning you can be shooting the big ships with your missiles while you send your drones to deal with the frigates. They're a must for any L4 mission runner.
Cruise missiles, I'm afraid, are also a must. As you know Torpedoes only have a range of about 20km so you are spending a lot of time trying to keep up with the enemy rats just so you can hit them; all this time they're hitting you with whatever they have and ruining your tank. Missile Launcher Operation V is a beggar to get, but it is handy too atleast.
As far as skills go you want to stick with your learning skills. Try to get them all to level 4 (except charisma) as well as the advanced skills to level 4 too. You also want cybernetics IV too so you can get some good implants. I'm not sure if you have any implants or not, but they're a quick albeit slightly expensive way to get your base attributes enhanced. I have +5's in for optimum learning speed, but +4's or even +3's are better than nothing.
If you dont think your Raven can cut it just yet then don't worry, stick to the L3's and your Drake (don't do L3's in your Raven because your Drake should be faster due to the lack of BS's in L3's) and get those skills trained up.
My skill plan for you would be:
Learning skills to 4/4.
Cybernetics IV (for +4 implants. They cost 15m each but they are WORTH IT!)
Energy Management IV (more cap)
Energy Systems Operation IV (more cap regen)
Shield Compensation IV (reduced cap need for boosters)
Shield Management IV (more shields)
Drones IV (4 drones should be enough)
Scout Drone Operation III (means your drones can go out further)
Missile Launcher Operation V (UGH, but necessary for cruise missiles)
Cruise Missiles IV (no reason not to get this to IV, more damage is GOOD)
Rapid Launch IV (you fire faster, you do more damage, GOOD)
Warhead Upgrades III (more damage, GOOD)
Guided Missile Precision III (atleast your cruise missiles will do OK damage to frigates then)
Caldari Battleship IV (means more damage, GOOD!)
That should set you back a few months, but once you've got them in the bag you'll be the golden boy of mission running in your cruise missile Raven.
My level 4 mission running and ratting Raven is below, although for ratting I swap the Cap Power Relay for Inertia Stabilisers:
[Raven, Cruise Ratting]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Power Relay II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
This setup gives 38,500 effective HP, 510 DPS (with my missile skills) and my capacitor can last for 3m 3s with the shield booster on.
First of all the Raven is not a passive setup ship. The Drake is good for passives because it has bonuses to shield resistance and has a good shield recharge time, where as the Raven doesn't! This means you need to go for modules you have to activate because they provide more resistances and better survivability.
First of all get used to using active shield hardeners -- i.e. modules that you have to activate in order to work that offer boosts to resistance to damage types. In my setup that's the Heat Dissipation Field II and Ballistic Deflection Field II. Each module offers protection to only one damage type except the Invulnerability Field module which offers protection across all 4 but with lesser results. As you know there are 4 damage types in Eve. The rats in Eve do 2 of these 4 damage types depending on what "faction" the rats belong to. When you look at the mission information you can see what rats you'll be against and can then fit your hardeners accordingly depending on what faction you'll be up against. How do you know what factions do what damage?
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports
Bookmark this site. It contains information on all the missions available in Eve and tells you what damage the rats deal and what damage you should be dealing. It also provides you with handy information on how to complete the missions easily.
http://eve.grismar.net/rats/index.php
Bookmark this site. It contains defensive and offensive information on every rat in the game -- just enter the name of the rat into the search and it'll all come up.
You dont want to fit more than two of each hardener because they have diminishing results (the more you fit the less effect they'll have). But essentially hardeners stop you taking so much damage right from the get go. On that note because you're going to be using active hardeners don't get any more of the shield compensation skills because they only really buff passive shield hardeners.
Ok, that's hardeners sorted.
The XL Shield Booster is a must, but as you said your ship runs out of cap pretty quickly because it eats so much juice! The first thing you want to work towards are the Capacitor Control Circuit rigs...they're quite expensive at 15m a pop but they offer a 15% recharge bonuses with no drawback. They're important, because the low slot cap rechargers called Capacitor Power Relays offer 24% recharge rate but have a 11% drawback to the HP recovered while shield boosting -- so if you use too many your shield boosting becomes useless. Many pansy mission runners in Eve focus on making their ships "perma-tanked"...that means they can run all their modules without ever running out of cap. Unfortunately these setups aren't optimal; they'll nerf your DPS meaning you don't finish your missions very quickly and they can cost a lot too. Instead I go for a more offensive approach; you want to be dealing as much damage as possible so that the rats die quicker and you make more isk per hour. With my setup the capacitor lasts for 3m 3s which is plenty of time; you don't need to run your shield booster permanently anyway and you can just turn it on and off again as necessary.
A pointer incase you don't know; ships have an "optimal" stage at which cap and shield recharging is at it's fastest. This is around 40% - 50%. If you go under that or over that then the recharge time is slower, so when you're boosting you want to turn it off, if you can, when your cap hits 40% so that the cap is recharging as quickly as possible. Once you're up to 60% - 70% cap you can turn your shield booster on again if you need to and just rinse and repeat.
Next; frigates and cruisers! Cruise missiles are OK against cruisers but are a bit crappy against frigates; this is because of the signature radius of ships in Eve. Essentially small ships avoid damage from big guns because they are small. This is combated by the skill "Guided Missile Precision" but I wouldn't recommend getting that higher than level 2 any time soon. Therefore in missions you combat frigates with Drones. A Raven has enough space to hold 5 medium drones that can tear through frigates pretty quickly, meaning you can be shooting the big ships with your missiles while you send your drones to deal with the frigates. They're a must for any L4 mission runner.
Cruise missiles, I'm afraid, are also a must. As you know Torpedoes only have a range of about 20km so you are spending a lot of time trying to keep up with the enemy rats just so you can hit them; all this time they're hitting you with whatever they have and ruining your tank. Missile Launcher Operation V is a beggar to get, but it is handy too atleast.
As far as skills go you want to stick with your learning skills. Try to get them all to level 4 (except charisma) as well as the advanced skills to level 4 too. You also want cybernetics IV too so you can get some good implants. I'm not sure if you have any implants or not, but they're a quick albeit slightly expensive way to get your base attributes enhanced. I have +5's in for optimum learning speed, but +4's or even +3's are better than nothing.
If you dont think your Raven can cut it just yet then don't worry, stick to the L3's and your Drake (don't do L3's in your Raven because your Drake should be faster due to the lack of BS's in L3's) and get those skills trained up.
My skill plan for you would be:
Learning skills to 4/4.
Cybernetics IV (for +4 implants. They cost 15m each but they are WORTH IT!)
Energy Management IV (more cap)
Energy Systems Operation IV (more cap regen)
Shield Compensation IV (reduced cap need for boosters)
Shield Management IV (more shields)
Drones IV (4 drones should be enough)
Scout Drone Operation III (means your drones can go out further)
Missile Launcher Operation V (UGH, but necessary for cruise missiles)
Cruise Missiles IV (no reason not to get this to IV, more damage is GOOD)
Rapid Launch IV (you fire faster, you do more damage, GOOD)
Warhead Upgrades III (more damage, GOOD)
Guided Missile Precision III (atleast your cruise missiles will do OK damage to frigates then)
Caldari Battleship IV (means more damage, GOOD!)
That should set you back a few months, but once you've got them in the bag you'll be the golden boy of mission running in your cruise missile Raven.
Thank you very much for the detailed advise. Highly appreciated.
I have just returned from a very satisfying 2 hour test of a passive tank set up for the raven. The shields held well and even withstood combined attack of 25 cruisers and frigates. I found a great spot where at all times there were 5 to 30 enemy ships- perfect respawn rate- but relentless stuff. Shields went down to 35% but generally above 40%. Currently 20k shields with 366 recharge time. Under similar circumstances the Drake's shields gave way (16k with 290 recharge time). So I was very happy. I could do my stuff and not worry about shields.
But every low and medium slot was needed for shield power relays, rechargers and extenders. Thus no room for MWD/ABs or ballistic control. I could not close the gap with the battleships though (obviously) and thus this set up is pretty useless for other than salvaging at Tvink.
[Raven, Passive Tank]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
Am now going to try and fit the ship according to your guidelines. I may not be able to fit all the stuff, but will try as best as I can, and test it under similar circumstances and report back.
I felt that the torpedoes were possibly a bit better overall against the frigates and cruisers, as compared to heavy missiles on a Drake. The difference was not drastic though. I suppose the DPS (which I presume is damage per second) would tell you. Currently my DPS is 135. Shield effective HP: 28552 (Hit point effective HP is 47011 ?how is this different)
Thank you for the links and the learning plan. My learning skills will take about 10 more days- which is tough as now have to learn all these other skills.... May loose my patience with these skills...
Am using basic implants (+3) All my attributes should be at least 20 (except charisma) in about 6 days.
I lost 12 drones in an hour during battle - and missed them in the next hour. Looking forward to training for better drones.
The main problem I foresee in the fitting is that I can't use cruise missiles and thus need at least an afterburner...
Edit: added image of raven passive tank testing at Tvink, Metropolis
I have just returned from a very satisfying 2 hour test of a passive tank set up for the raven. The shields held well and even withstood combined attack of 25 cruisers and frigates. I found a great spot where at all times there were 5 to 30 enemy ships- perfect respawn rate- but relentless stuff. Shields went down to 35% but generally above 40%. Currently 20k shields with 366 recharge time. Under similar circumstances the Drake's shields gave way (16k with 290 recharge time). So I was very happy. I could do my stuff and not worry about shields.
But every low and medium slot was needed for shield power relays, rechargers and extenders. Thus no room for MWD/ABs or ballistic control. I could not close the gap with the battleships though (obviously) and thus this set up is pretty useless for other than salvaging at Tvink.
[Raven, Passive Tank]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
Am now going to try and fit the ship according to your guidelines. I may not be able to fit all the stuff, but will try as best as I can, and test it under similar circumstances and report back.
I felt that the torpedoes were possibly a bit better overall against the frigates and cruisers, as compared to heavy missiles on a Drake. The difference was not drastic though. I suppose the DPS (which I presume is damage per second) would tell you. Currently my DPS is 135. Shield effective HP: 28552 (Hit point effective HP is 47011 ?how is this different)
Thank you for the links and the learning plan. My learning skills will take about 10 more days- which is tough as now have to learn all these other skills.... May loose my patience with these skills...
Am using basic implants (+3) All my attributes should be at least 20 (except charisma) in about 6 days.
I lost 12 drones in an hour during battle - and missed them in the next hour. Looking forward to training for better drones.
The main problem I foresee in the fitting is that I can't use cruise missiles and thus need at least an afterburner...
Edit: added image of raven passive tank testing at Tvink, Metropolis
The drones take a little micro-management in that they often get targetted when new rat raves appear; so when you know there's a new wave coming just recall them into your drone bay and wait 20 seconds and then redeploy them. All the aggro will be on you, rather than your drones, and you'll not lose any!
In terms of DPS you really want to be doing minimum 250 DPS or you're just too slow. Think of it this way; tanking 30 ships is great, but if you can tank 30 ships for 3 minutes and take out 15 of them in this time, you'll then be able to tank the rest more easily + you're completing the mission faster, which means you're making isk faster.
In terms of DPS you really want to be doing minimum 250 DPS or you're just too slow. Think of it this way; tanking 30 ships is great, but if you can tank 30 ships for 3 minutes and take out 15 of them in this time, you'll then be able to tank the rest more easily + you're completing the mission faster, which means you're making isk faster.
QUOTE(Dark0ne @ Jul 28 2008, 10:06 PM)
My level 4 mission running and ratting Raven is below
OK Dark One, I have finally tried your set up (more or less). Took me a while to get some of my skills up to get modules. Also needed a fair amount of money. Have spent about a 100 million ISK in the last few hours. Still have not got all the recommended modules- as some skills still need training.
I tested the setup under similar circumstances, as before, and I was certainly doing significantly more damage. Managed to get the battleships with about 200 cruise missiles each (which is great for me). Was using only 4 light drones- so I am sure that as soon as I can start using 5 heavy drones, things will improve. Also need to get BCS IIs. Also with short range of my drones I needed to fit a MVD/afterburner to keep within range- so I might as well have used torpedoes- but still, all this will improve over the next few weeks.
About the tanking. Well, my passive tank in a drake was no doubt MUCH superior. I could withstand much more damage indefinitely. Still I managed to withstand the barrage for a long time with my XL shield booster (will time this in subsequent testing). The capacitor recharge worked much better than I expected. The main advantage of active tanking is the extra damage you can do, and this, no doubt, is more useful than withstanding damage indefinitely- and not being able to get through the shields of your enemy.
Now that I have my learning skills sorted, am going to start on the skills you recommend. Am thinking of getting +5 implants instead of +4 (already using +3). Might as well bite the bullet sooner than later...
I was thinking of buying time codes, but all the current and imminent expenditure is going to hurt me badly. Need to play the market a bit more. Wish me luck!
To get a full set of +5's (or four +5's as you dont really need a charisma implant higher than +3) is going to cost you about 400m isk, so you might not want to waste 12 days of training time on Cybernetics V if you cant actually afford the implants!
The tank is definately weaker on the Raven over a properly passively tanked Drake, but the DPS should be 3 or 4 times higher than that of your passive Drake so you'll be completing the missions faster regardless of whether you have to warp out once or twice to regen in your Raven. Thing is a lot of the carebear Eve players prefer the passive Drake setup because it means they don't have to do anything -- why bother paying $15/month for a game that you don't do anything in?
Try to improve those skills so you don't have to fit an MWD; it seriously reduces your total cap and cap regen that in turn seriously limits your ability to tank damage. Also try to move onto the medium scout drones (Hammerheads) cause they do significantly more damage.
I've moved on to using Heavy Assault Ships (HACs) and improving my HAC skills because they're much better for 0.0 where your ship agility is just as, if not more important than your ability to tank. My Cerberus setup can deal 500 DPS at 37km max range and, so long as I'm not against EM damage rats, I can pretty much tank anything due to the Cerberus' very high damage resistances to kin/therm/explosive damage. 500 DPS is pretty damn good as well for a missile boat.
I haven't been playing much Eve recently, simply logging on every week or so to do my skill changes and I'll restock my market alt every once in a while. I need to make another 3b isk before the end of November in order to buy a Jump Freighter for my freighter alt. Once I get a JF I can be a real asset to any corp/alliance I join; corps are always looking for good pack mules to handle their logisitics. It also opens up much better market opportunities for me as I'll be able to bring in lots of crap from Jita and sell them on the 0.0 market for a tidy profit
The tank is definately weaker on the Raven over a properly passively tanked Drake, but the DPS should be 3 or 4 times higher than that of your passive Drake so you'll be completing the missions faster regardless of whether you have to warp out once or twice to regen in your Raven. Thing is a lot of the carebear Eve players prefer the passive Drake setup because it means they don't have to do anything -- why bother paying $15/month for a game that you don't do anything in?
Try to improve those skills so you don't have to fit an MWD; it seriously reduces your total cap and cap regen that in turn seriously limits your ability to tank damage. Also try to move onto the medium scout drones (Hammerheads) cause they do significantly more damage.
I've moved on to using Heavy Assault Ships (HACs) and improving my HAC skills because they're much better for 0.0 where your ship agility is just as, if not more important than your ability to tank. My Cerberus setup can deal 500 DPS at 37km max range and, so long as I'm not against EM damage rats, I can pretty much tank anything due to the Cerberus' very high damage resistances to kin/therm/explosive damage. 500 DPS is pretty damn good as well for a missile boat.
I haven't been playing much Eve recently, simply logging on every week or so to do my skill changes and I'll restock my market alt every once in a while. I need to make another 3b isk before the end of November in order to buy a Jump Freighter for my freighter alt. Once I get a JF I can be a real asset to any corp/alliance I join; corps are always looking for good pack mules to handle their logisitics. It also opens up much better market opportunities for me as I'll be able to bring in lots of crap from Jita and sell them on the 0.0 market for a tidy profit
There is a sad end to this story. I decided to test the set up on a level 3 mission. Looked around, and found a level 3 agent who was willing to talk to me, got the standard clear the blockade at the stargate mission- but after a while it got really tough (I was not paying attention to the triggers, as Abramul explained to me later).
So I had to go a few jumps to get some ammo and modules- and on the way I found ex-corp mate Killer Skull in a capsule (don't ask me why- he is always up to no good). Killer decided to help me- and we both went in again in our Ravens and had to hot tail it out of there soon enough. Killer said enough, and left- and I kept going in again and again, getting one or two ships each time, and changing my set up a bit and so on- till one time I got hit by totally unplayable lag- the game froze for a minute and when things started moving my ship was no more.
I tried to recover my can, as there was about 20 million worth of stuff in it- but this was next to impossible... Finally I managed to bookmark the can and turned in (failed) the mission and recovered my goods. Overall at least 150 million ISK lost- more like 200 million.
So I had to go a few jumps to get some ammo and modules- and on the way I found ex-corp mate Killer Skull in a capsule (don't ask me why- he is always up to no good). Killer decided to help me- and we both went in again in our Ravens and had to hot tail it out of there soon enough. Killer said enough, and left- and I kept going in again and again, getting one or two ships each time, and changing my set up a bit and so on- till one time I got hit by totally unplayable lag- the game froze for a minute and when things started moving my ship was no more.
I tried to recover my can, as there was about 20 million worth of stuff in it- but this was next to impossible... Finally I managed to bookmark the can and turned in (failed) the mission and recovered my goods. Overall at least 150 million ISK lost- more like 200 million.
the set up is crap, fit some invul. field ii's else u will die fast
QUOTE(samroski @ Jul 28 2008, 12:13 PM)
Have got EFT- and after a while managed to install my character and fit the Drake. But I just could not copy the info. In the meantime I hit the 80 mil. mark and bought the Raven. So the issue now is of fitting the Raven.
I at once fitted it with torpedoes and set out to destroy the battleships at Tvink. I managed to get through the shields but with the combined firepower of the battleship and 6 or 7 frigates the shields gave way, and I warped out with some armour damage. Was using a passive tank- which I like as I do not want to worry about turning on a booster or paying any sort of attention to the shields other than note that they have hit 20% and it time to exit.
In stark contrast to my philosophy, I next tried a set up with an XL shield booster, ballistic control, but this was a disaster as well. Though I managed to destroy the battleship, but the capacitor recharge rate was crap thus no boost the last few seconds (again had not hit the small targets to keep the test similar), and I escaped with half armour damage, but having got the battleship.
This experience reinforced my philosophy and I have now done the follwing set up: (cannot copy, thus the image)
I did reasonably well with this, but the shields gave way when about 25 frigates attacked me. I need serious help with setting up my ship. Keep in mind that I know zilch about jamming/electronic warfare (and most other things)
I at once fitted it with torpedoes and set out to destroy the battleships at Tvink. I managed to get through the shields but with the combined firepower of the battleship and 6 or 7 frigates the shields gave way, and I warped out with some armour damage. Was using a passive tank- which I like as I do not want to worry about turning on a booster or paying any sort of attention to the shields other than note that they have hit 20% and it time to exit.
In stark contrast to my philosophy, I next tried a set up with an XL shield booster, ballistic control, but this was a disaster as well. Though I managed to destroy the battleship, but the capacitor recharge rate was crap thus no boost the last few seconds (again had not hit the small targets to keep the test similar), and I escaped with half armour damage, but having got the battleship.
This experience reinforced my philosophy and I have now done the follwing set up: (cannot copy, thus the image)
I did reasonably well with this, but the shields gave way when about 25 frigates attacked me. I need serious help with setting up my ship. Keep in mind that I know zilch about jamming/electronic warfare (and most other things)
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