DarkWandererGr
Feb 16 2004, 06:39 PM
The idea of MEMod is great and(as i said many times) the final will be great.
Whatever the purpose of the creation of this topic is not to create a flamer again but to ask you if the characters in this game will have sentiments.I have finished more that 35 RPGs(included all final fantasy,baldur's gate,breath of fire,icewind dale,elder scrolls etc) and I played more than a hundread. But in none of these RPGs the characters had true sentiments,not just for the oposite sex.The meaning of an RPG is to play with a group of characters, to raise their skills etc...but only in D&D you can have true emotions because you are the one who think about the situatios you are in and not a CPU.
I am just asking you this. I do not want you to believe that i want to see such a thing in MEMod.I would love to but I know that it is very difficult and that you might can't do such a thing
-- Dark Wanderer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live to play Final Fantasy
Breathe to play Final Fantasy
loveme4whoiam
Feb 16 2004, 06:52 PM
How would you plan on implementing something like this? Honestly i don't think it can be done, due to lack of technology and the fact that you are indeed playing a character. Perhaps the closest we can get to this currently (in any game, not just Me-Mod) is to write the storyline in a way that makes us care about the NPC's.
If you can think of a way better than this, i'd love to hear it. If it would work it would advance the games industry no end.
seregmegil
Feb 16 2004, 08:15 PM
I'm agree with both posts. I ever felt the lack of sentiments in any pc game, but I know that it's nearly impossible to make a game with this feature.
But as I do, you can provide your char with sentiments in any RPG, specially all the last RPG's that are in the market that allows the player to do nearly all you want.
I want to say, for example, in Morrowind I play with a nord warrior and when I was playing I entered a dwarf ruin and I found a rubi in a barrel. In this moment I was thinking in this fact and I decided that my char will love the gems. Since this moment I entered all the ruins, caves, shops and killed someone only for his gems.
It's ony an example, and I know that there are many things you will not be able to do to act like you want. For example. everything you have to need an interaction with another npc.
I think you have to play any online RPG that allow you to make what you want. I haven't played too many online rpg (My modem would die XD) but I've read in these forums for everquest and runescape I think, make a search and inform yourselft about them. ^^
DevilishPope
Feb 17 2004, 08:43 PM
I would like to just "pop" in here and say that creating a D&D atmosphere is impossible in a TES Game, for the fact that you control one character, and not many, that the dialogue interaction is going to much more shallow, because the scope of the game is adventuring and exploring. Baldur's Gate II, my favorite game of all time, is set on a much more linear path, not allowing as much adventuring and exploring as Morrowind. The trade-off is the much more personal attachment to the characters through the use of the story and intercessions where the characters connect with you and you are allowed to question them, albeit linearly. Morrowind is exploring, BGII is story-driven for the most part. Thats the divide between freeform and linear. Also, if I have learned anything in my experience with all the game's I have played, it's that the Console RPG's are the shallowest of them all, and almost as linear as a straight line. Quoting that you have played "all the FF's" won't net you any credit in my book.
suzerain
Feb 18 2004, 06:17 PM
eeesh. emotions.
now, that's a tricky one to cover, without getting all conceptual. Bearwith me if I start getting into design terminology, I hope this'll be coherent.
I'll start with the most obvious detail. Each player (not character, player, flesh and blood) is different, yet alone their characters, and therefore the first and most difficult aspect of creating any form of emotional connection to the game is in ensuring that a character manages to allow suspensio of deisbelif, and create association with the player. What one demographic will like, and become attached to (the "oh, I've got to help out bob the hobbit, he's really nice" reaction) will be balanced by an equal demographic of people whose personal response to the same character is hostile. (the "Grr. that bloody hobbit gets on my...." reaction).
now, add in the fact that through modern PCs, there is no true AI, no self-awareness, meaning that it's virtually impossible to create NPC characters whose behavior and actions alter to accommodate a player's reaction types.
lastly, with that, the difficulty rests with the fact that, generally, NPC backgrounds are so shallow you're likely not to get your toes wet with them. there's almost no way with day-to-day scripting of dialogues you can sit back with an NPC, be it Xardas in Gothic, Tifa in a FF game, Duke Dren in Morrowind, or any of a hundred other products I've worked on, written for, or played, and have a chat about what you think of the weather, the problem you're having with a quest on the other side of the country, and ask for advice, and so on.
Now, that might be possible in MEMod - with about 15 gadzillion scripts and mor dialogue than you could shake a stick at. it'll probably also add a year to the development, I fear.
that, really is the crux of the difficulty in developing associations with NPCs in most RPGs - the NPCs are, by and large, too shallow in personality and characterisation to allow a successful immersion into their realities to suspend the disbelief that you're not simply pressing a button to get a response. really, in that sense, nonplayer characters in computer RPGs have come on very little since the early 1980's when in "the Hobbit", in front of your text box, you typed "TELL GANDALF BREAK DOOR" and gasped that the computer responded.
it may be prettier, but the npc's are just as vacuous.
there's only one way, with existing technology, that non-player characters can develop the depth of background, idiosyncracies of personality, and the ability to adapt to a player's style. and that's called running a MMORG where the non-player characters are other players. the human brain is unparralelled in that respect. Therefore, the best that we can do at this point in time is to push the boundaries as far as possible in terms of suspenion of disbeleif, structure, and n characterisation of nonplayer characters to ensure that the depth is greater than previously attempted.
personally, I'd like to see things like dynamic alteration of text. ask Elrond something, and you'll get different replies about the same answer - ask about the elves, and you mght manage to end up on a tangent about th elder days, without ever realising that you've forgotten to ask about the main quest you're on. ask about opinions, and e might look at somethign and give thoughts - depth of reaction, depth of response. how easily that might be implemented, for the tens of thousands of NPCs that MEMod will contain I cannot predict.
but we'll give it the best shot possible.
Suzerain.
Lead Conceptual Designer.
seregmegil
Feb 18 2004, 07:15 PM
| QUOTE (suzerain @ Feb 18 2004, 07:17 PM) |
| ...really, in that sense, nonplayer characters in computer RPGs have come on very little since the early 1980's when in "the Hobbit", in front of your text box, you typed "TELL GANDALF BREAK DOOR" and gasped that the computer responded. |
ohh, the golden age of the games. ^^
Suzerain, do you have tried to play a MUD?, I'm sure you had

The first time I've played one of them i felt that I was back in time to the Spectum days but with human people ^^.