Ok..

I would love to hear some of you guys opinions on this...assuming you have one.

In recent years there has been a growing call for archaeological treasures to be returned to the native countries from which they were first discovered. In some cases they had been taken illegally out of the country. In some case they were taken before a country had any "laws" regarding the rights of archaeological discoveries. In some cases they were snuck out in the dark of night.

Many treasures now lie in museums (and a great many private collections) and the countries of origin want them back. An outspoken proponent of this is Egypt's Head of Royal Antiquities Zahi Hawass who stunned his collegues in a speech several years ago at the British Museum when he demanded they return numerous Egyptian artifacts.

The countries say this is part of their cultural history. The current owners often claim to have taken treasures legally and that the best place for them is where millions can have open access to them.

One of the most intreaging (at least to me) examples is of "Priam's Treasure" Making the assumption that this treasure basically came from where and when Schliemann says (though he is known to have lied about the details of its finding) and is in fact a treasure of ancient Illium (though probably NOT Priam) what should be done with it and the thousands of other desputed items throughout the world's museums?

Supposdly found by classical arcaeologist and treasure hunter Heinrich Schliemann in Turkey in the current site now widely to belived to be Illium (the legenday Troy) in 1873. He reportedly took the treasure out of the country under the Ottoman Government's nose and smuggled it into Greece (and was in fact sued by the Ottoman Government for this.) Schliemann later willed it to The Berlin Museum where it was until World War II. At this time it was believed to be carted up by order of Adolf Hitler and hidden by the Nazis along with countless other treasures of art and history. Though it was looked for after the war it was thought lost until in the 1990's it came to light that it had been hidden by the former Soviet Union probably since the war. It remains in Moscow to this day though a treaty was made between Russia and Germany to have it returned to Berlin.

At this time Russia claims rights as a spoil of war. Germany claims rights as Schliemann gave it to them and he was also a German citizen. Greece claims rights to Priam's Treasure as the treasure was smuggled out to thier country and given into the care of Schliemann's wife and family who were Greek. Finally Turkey lays claim to this as cultural treasure of their ancient people (though many archaeologist are fearful that if it returns there access will be even more restricted and could possibly fall into Islamic hands where it could again disappear.)

So..who owns Priam's Treasure?

In their countries of origin, whenever possible. We have in italy many many treasures who are now held in many american museums, for example, (and not only in USA) and recently someone of our incompetent politicians asked shyly these museums to return these treasures in italy.

These treasures were illegally sold by "tombaroli" (popular expression to indicate a "grave digger") to collectors from other countries, and personally i wouldn't accept any half mesure or barter; these are part of our history and WE must own them, or at least, put a rent fee for keeping these artifacts

It's not strictly a matter of "ownership", it's more like a matter of "aura" (Walter Benjamin docet) many artifacts need to be visited in their own "habitat" and not only in museums, and even if they are in a museum, under a glass box, there must be a context surrounding them.

Look at the Louvre museum for example: Is there any context surrounding the arts held in there? obviously not. It's a chaos where everything is equal to everything, a real example of "aura" killer.

So, to answer your question, The Priam treasure should return to his country of origin, no matter if it was taken legally or not. And the Turkey MUST provide an excellent context-museum for it.

Someway this is similar to the intellectual property problem, yet a simpler one since being a cultural problem there is no 'legal' transaction possible as didn't existed a real owner to sell the items, but the people.

Sure this can and will be argued, but aways at another level than the said above.

And this is just an opinion of mine, as I know the concepts of justice and rights divorced since long time ago.

i think we should just build a giant museum in Antarctica and place all of the world's disputed treasures there. that way, nobody fights over them, and everyone gets to see them. they belong to no country, and well, yeah. but i guess people would never go for that. i think we should take a hint from the halo3 trailers, and build a museum of humanity there

I'm not sure about you, but I DEFINITELY do want to take a trip to Antarctica to a museum... It's cold, it's a long ways to go, it's cold, there's nothing there, iand it's cold. And of course, you'd have the "environmentalists" whining because we're destroying the penguin's habitat... and then PETA would get involved and then all kinds of feces would be hitting the fan.

Eventually, if it ever got build, ownership of said museum would ultimately come under debate. The only reason no one wants Antarctica is because there's nothing there of interest to anyone except the scientific community. Throw in 6000 years of treasure and artifacts that are priceless, and you've got a war on your hands. Not necessarily with guns and bombs and dying, but certainly questions of ownership would arise.

If something is worth anything to anyone, some one else wants it.

-T-

I am honest when I say I mostly agree with you. It would be nice if museums would share and put items "on tour" so that mosre may enjoy. Some do this and some do not as they consider the artifacts in question to be too valuble.

I think some of the fear int he archeaological community is that items will simply disappear away in basements again. It is possible. Especially in hostile political areas. Most people do not realize what political value that archeaology has. Imagaine if (and I am only using this as an example not a statement of my belief) the Muslim's finally completes a dig happen under The Dome of the Rock. And that parts of a 1st century Jewish Temple was found. Would the Muslims announce thier find? I seriously doubt it as it would give Israel a political advantage and add possible confirmation to their rights in the area and undermind some of thier beliefs.
So many treasures would simply disappear.
So that being understood, perhaps not wit Priams Treasure per se...but artifacts in general...do you still give them over?

It is a bit trickier than it initially seems.

A point that should be considered, in fact, the first thing is to prevent these artifacts to be buried into archives and basements, and so to be forgotten. Sometimes it is necessary, in order to restore them from time damage, or to study them more and wait for a specific museum for them.

But I KNOW (i have more than one archaeologist friend) that this happens rarely. I felt ashamed when an friend of mine, who is studying an archaeolgical site of an italic population (Far before the Etruscans and the Romans) told me that his studies are needed only for a documentation and archive of the most important items... because the entire site is about to be buried under tons of concrete, the foundations of a new, horrible, useless commercial mall.

If this happens here, (who we are supposed to be the number one in the world for the culture goods) you see your example about the dome of the rock is more than realistic. the contested treasure would be no more considered a culture good, but an element for a political (and i'm sure not only political) war.

In that case, who owns that treasure in a land that is culturally scattered and divided? (not only cultural to be honest) and What UNESCO could do? A site owned by both parts? it would be a beautiful dream. Owned by none, only under UNESCO's responsibility? another beautiful dream. Better let that treasure buried and wait for more peaceful times to come.

Indeed a beautiful world. ANd what I call "express archaeology" (when you dig and fast so someone can build) saddens me more. How much is lost in our hurry just to get out the big things so the next high rise can go up?

It is unfortunate but that is how it is. I am glad that more countries are at least taking the time to make some kind of dig available even for a limited time. It used to be bull dozers and who cares about it unless it was some huge pile of gold.

However as populations and political hostility increase and the demand to show a country/nation/race right to a piece of land grows, I believe the political dark side of this will continue to grow. I am honest that I don't know the answer to where some treasures should be housed. I would love to have them where they belong...and on the occasional world tour...but I also see nations need to keep grip on their heritage. It is also sad that archaeologist are banned from digging in certain places and countries. I believe the more that we know and discover lets us celebrate our cultural diversity but shows us just how alike we all are. The more we learn of one another the less hostility and more humanity can be gained.