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The Nexus Forums > Specific Games > Oblivion > Oblivion Modifications > Mod Troubleshooting
dastaten
I know the importance of "load order" once the mods are installed, and I'm pretty sure I've got OOO and MMM where they should go, but does the order of initial installation matter? Does installing them before or after other mods raise the chances of ending up with bugs?

nosisab
If two mods refers to the same things, the last one in the load order will be the 'winner' or the change that will prevail. As a rule of sorts you can see the bigger and more generic mods as the ones that would being first, or the smaller and more specifics ones would be unnecessary as it would disappear. Well not aways so, but is a good start.

Not all things will be lost in the precedent mod, just the ones that overlaps. Now is where utilities as Wrye Bash come in. for several not absolute conflicts, it merge the conflicting mods into a patched ESP that try to preserve the changes of then all. And it succeed most of times.

Whenever installing big mods and overhauls read with attention the instructions, as they ever have then.
dastaten
QUOTE(dyfed_99 @ Apr 29 2008, 06:33 PM) *


Wow. After finishing the cheat sheet, I will be able to use Wrye Bash to load my last tweaks like "denock arrow", "alive waters", etc, right?

dyfed_99
QUOTE(dastaten @ Apr 29 2008, 09:31 PM) *
Wow. After finishing the cheat sheet, I will be able to use Wrye Bash to load my last tweaks like "denock arrow", "alive waters", etc, right?

Check the list in FCOMhelper for the load order about them. Alive waters should be in the 'baseline' or rather after the 'UOP' section and before any overhaul. So before OOO and MMM. Same for the 'denock arrow', although I don't know it, and in OOO as well as in Wrye Bash there are already many tweaks for the arrows (and in FCOM_Archery). So be careful because you could accidentally overwrite these tweaks.. As for 'Alive waters' in OOO there's also an 'OOO water weeds' additional plugin and it has a fish spawn option which you can enable or disable using COBL (OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp). To do this, go in the inventory, select *Options (or something) and manage it or other things such Harvest or Lockpicking options or Day Time scale etc..
dastaten
QUOTE(dyfed_99 @ Apr 29 2008, 07:53 PM) *
QUOTE(dastaten @ Apr 29 2008, 09:31 PM) *
Wow. After finishing the cheat sheet, I will be able to use Wrye Bash to load my last tweaks like "denock arrow", "alive waters", etc, right?

Check the list in FCOMhelper for the load order about them. Alive waters should be in the 'baseline' or rather after the 'UOP' section and before any overhaul. So before OOO and MMM. Same for the 'denock arrow', although I don't know it, and in OOO as well as in Wrye Bash there are already many tweaks for the arrows (and in FCOM_Archery). So be careful because you could accidentally overwrite these tweaks.. As for 'Alive waters' in OOO there's also an 'OOO water weeds' additional plugin and it has a fish spawn option which you can enable or disable using COBL (OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp). To do this, go in the inventory, select *Options (or something) and manage it or other things such Harvest or Lockpicking options or Day Time scale etc..


This is incredible. I just hope the process isn't as grueling as it looks. One more question though, am I going to have to arrange all these .esp's listed in the helper myself or should they be in the right order if I follow the cheat sheet? It looks like it would take days to manually arrange all these.
dyfed_99
QUOTE(dastaten @ Apr 29 2008, 09:58 PM) *
One more question though, am I going to have to arrange all these .esp's listed in the helper myself or should they be in the right order if I follow the cheat sheet? It looks like it would take days to manually arrange all these.

Well you need to put in the correct load order just the plugins you need. Of course, if you want to load all those plugins this is impossible! Additionally many of them will not run together! So select the mods you want and then, following those links and that helper, adjust your load order. Just remember, many plugins will do the same! So you don't need all of them (eg. MMM Diverse Imperial Armor is already in OOO, FCOM_archery and Wrye Bash already do an overhaul for the arrows etc..) Just make sure to read well those web pages in those links and adjust your load order for the plugins which aren't mentioned there with FCOM helper, that is.
Sativarg
It would be nice if some one tagged the major overhauls' headers so that they would work with Full Balo. But that would be a big hassle. Maybe Wrye will add FCOM to Oblivion\Data\Bashed Patch\Bash_Groups.csv.

QUOTE
Bash Auto Load Ordering (aka Balo) will semi-automatically sort your mods into a few predefined groups.
dastaten
QUOTE(dyfed_99 @ Apr 29 2008, 08:22 PM) *
QUOTE(dastaten @ Apr 29 2008, 09:58 PM) *
One more question though, am I going to have to arrange all these .esp's listed in the helper myself or should they be in the right order if I follow the cheat sheet? It looks like it would take days to manually arrange all these.

Well you need to put in the correct load order just the plugins you need. Of course, if you want to load all those plugins this is impossible! Additionally many of them will not run together! So select the mods you want and then, following those links and that helper, adjust your load order. Just remember, many plugins will do the same! So you don't need all of them (eg. MMM Diverse Imperial Armor is already in OOO, FCOM_archery and Wrye Bash already do an overhaul for the arrows etc..) Just make sure to read well those web pages in those links and adjust your load order for the plugins which aren't mentioned there with FCOM helper, that is.


Ok, I just want to make sure I have this straight before I do it tonight. If I follow the cheat sheet and install everything, I will end up with the Wrye Bash mod manager filled with mods that I can activate/deactivate and organize in load order, and FCOM helps them to all work together so that I shouldn't have conflicts (unless I load specific conflicting mods like multiple arrow mods). Am I understanding this correctly?

Sativarg
to dyfed_99:
Sorry to inject here but I just downloaded the "FCOMhelper -->" and had a look at it. Have you seen how Bashes Bash_Groups.csv works? I bet this list and the others could be at least partially implemented semiautomatically with Balo in bash. But you probably already knew this.

Once I finally got my mods in Balo order things worked much better for my game.

Thanks for all the links you provided.
dastaten
QUOTE(Sativarg @ Apr 29 2008, 09:56 PM) *
to dyfed_99:
Sorry to inject here but I just downloaded the "FCOMhelper -->" and had a look at it. Have you seen how Bashes Bash_Groups.csv works? I bet this list and the others could be at least partially implemented semiautomatically with Balo in bash. But you probably already knew this.

Once I finally got my mods in Balo order things worked much better for my game.

Thanks for all the links you provided.


Sorry, but i'm new at this stuff... Are you saying there is a better way? What is Balo?
Sativarg
QUOTE(dastaten @ Apr 29 2008, 05:00 PM) *
Sorry, but i'm new at this stuff... Are you saying there is a better way? What is Balo?
No not at all. I am sure dyfed_99 knows much more about the FCOM system than I do. Please don't let me confuse you. Balo?

Balo @ www.uesp.net link

Bash Auto Load Ordering is
QUOTE(wrye.ufrealms.net)
Bash Auto Load Ordering (aka Balo) will semi-automatically sort your mods into a few predefined groups. Currently its still necessary to specify for each mod which group it belongs to, but future versions of Balo may provide additional automation in this area.
I was hoping that soon the load ordering for FCOM could be implemented or assisted by Balo.

More about my Balo experience:

QUOTE( me from elsewhere )
First, you can save your load order to a Load List.
Second, the newest version of Bash(172 [4/27/2008]) has the Full Balo implementation of the Bash Auto Load Ordering (aka Balo)

I thought that Balo was going to be a huge problem to use and that it was going to be too complicated but once I tried it I was pleasantly surprise at how simple it was. And now its even better because Wrye has made a list of many mods and the groups they should go into. The list is a CSV file that allows Balo to automatically group and thus order many of your mods. The rest can be assigned to a group simply by right clicking the ESP/M and choosing the appropriate group.

Once I got my few ESPs (8c=140) in correct order and I did all the Mark Mergeables, Mark Levelers and built the Bashed patch my CTDs disappeared. I used to get a crash when I would try to load a save that was not in the cell I was in and I always crashed when exiting the game. Not any more.


dyfed_99
QUOTE(Sativarg @ Apr 29 2008, 11:56 PM) *
to dyfed_99:
Sorry to inject here but I just downloaded the "FCOMhelper -->" and had a look at it. Have you seen how Bashes Bash_Groups.csv works? I bet this list and the others could be at least partially implemented semiautomatically with Balo in bash. But you probably already knew this.

Once I finally got my mods in Balo order things worked much better for my game.

Thanks for all the links you provided.

You're always very welcome, Sativarg! I know the Balo loading order and I don't use it though because Wrye himself don't really recommend it unless you don't correct it manually. This because in the same group you could have any mods conflicting one each other! But yes, I've forgotten to say that conclusively I'm using the Wrye Bash groups along with FCOM helper load order trying to tune them. I admit the only FCOM helper order isn't too reliable. You have to modify it in some cases, but it's all at your own discretion.. Though it's good as a general guideline!
Btw I'm using TES4edit too, trying to resolve possible conflicts (just minor issues, not big such the landscapes/pathgrids conflicts between Ancient Yews and Arrius Creek for example), although sometimes I do some errors. Good is that I've saved the original plugins.. wink.gif

@dastaten: BALO or Bash Auto Loading Order it's a feature of Wrye Bash. It's intended to help any user to auto order his mods. But I prefer to do this manually using OBMM, but following the general guidelines provided by FCOM helper and Wrye hisself.
At last whatever loading order guidleline you're using you have to tune it yourself manually! Good luck!
dyfed_99
QUOTE(Sativarg @ Apr 30 2008, 12:17 AM) *
Second, the newest version of Bash(172 [4/27/2008]) has the Full Balo implementation of the Bash Auto Load Ordering (aka Balo)

Oh my God.. I was totally unaware of this. Thank you! thumbsup.gif
RyuNoKami
well at first i tried out the BALO method...didn't go so well, it didnt even rearrange anything, so i went ahead and check out the FCOM site. I did and it loaded up and all but i do not know if everything is correctly 100%. Well the one thing that sort of "went wrong" was that the legions after i attacked them for a while, they had this white transparent color to them although it stopped when they were dead.

EDIT: load order revised: look on post 17
Sativarg
Did you try manually grouping mods in bash?
Click to view attachment

The white coloration sounds like a blood texture problem but it might be related to a magic effect you are causing or using. Perhaps a screen shot would help some one recognize the problem.
RyuNoKami
well heres a pic that shows that white color thing...



i also have a issue with missing textures/meshes or something like that with exclamation marks on certain things.





and heres my new load order:

CODE
Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 CM Partners.esm
02 All Natural Base.esm
03 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.33]
04 Mart's Monster Mod.esm
05 FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.8]
06 Better Cities Resources.esm
07 CCompanionOne-ReznodCompanionShare.esm
08 CCompanionOne-RenBeautyPack.esm
09 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
0A Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
0B TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.36]
0C Younger Hotter NPC's v1.0.esp
0D HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp
0E Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
0F DLCShiveringIsles.esp
10 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.2.0]
11 Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp
12 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
13 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
14 Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
15 FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.8]
16 FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.8]
17 All Natural - Real Lights.esp
18 All Natural.esp
19 All Natural - Debug Ring.esp
1A Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
1B Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
1C tda_ScytheModv1.2.esp
1D DLCHorseArmor.esp
1E DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.2]
1F DLCOrrery.esp
20 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.2]
21 DLCFrostcrag.esp
22 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
23 Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp [Version 3.0.0]
24 DLCThievesDen.esp
25 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]
26 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.2]
27 DLCVileLair.esp
28 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.2]
29 Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp [Version 3.0.0]
2A DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
2B DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.2]
2C DLCSpellTomes.esp
2D DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
2E ExnemRuneskulls.esp
2F FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp [Version 0.9.8]
30 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.33]
31 OOO-Map_Markers_Stock.esp [Version 1.33]
32 OOO-No_Guild_Ownership.esp [Version 1.33]
33 OOO-BirthSigns.esp [Version 1.33]
34 OOO-Combat_Skills_Perks_Marksmanship.esp [Version 1.33]
35 OOO-DaedraLord_Quests.esp [Version 1.33]
36 OOO-Deadly_Combat.esp [Version 1.33]
37 OOO-DLT_Immersion.esp [Version 1.33]
38 OOO-Magic_Effects+Spells.esp [Version 1.33]
39 OOO-Magic_Effects+Enchantments.esp [Version 1.33]
3A OOO-Magic_Game_Settings.esp [Version 1.33]
3B OOO-Potions.esp [Version 1.33]
3C OOO-Magic_Script_Effect_Fix.esp [Version 1.33]
3D OOO-Container_Trap_Instant_Effects.esp [Version 1.33]
3E OOO-Level_Normal.esp [Version 1.33]
3F FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.8]
40 FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp [Version 0.9.8]
41 Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp
42 Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
43 Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp [Version 3.5.5b3]
44 FCOM_SpawnRatesReduced.esp [Version 0.9.8]
45 FCOM_SaferRoads.esp [Version 0.9.8]
46 FCOM_LessRats.esp [Version 0.9.8]
47 Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp
48 Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp
49 Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp
4A Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp
4B FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp [Version 0.9.8]
4C FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp [Version 0.9.8]
4D FCOM_Archery.esp [Version 0.9.8]
4E TamrielTravellers4000.esp [Version 1.36]
4F TamrielTravellerAdvScript.esp [Version 1.36]
50 TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp
51 ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp
52 FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp [Version 0.9.8]
53 BlackLuster.esp
54 c_dagcol.esp
55 AT2 01-Shiki Armor Set v1_0.esp
56 Cheat Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
57 Slof's Horses Base.esp
58 Slof's Horses Essential.esp
59 TamrielTravellersHorseTextures.esp
5A StockClothingArmor-forExnems.esp
5B StockClothingArmor-forExnems - OOO Patch.esp
5C LC-Compilation-Exnem.esp
5D Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp
5E Hiyoko_Store.esp
5F Oonas_Outfitters.esp
60 Bisquits01.esp
61 Cheydinhal Petshop.esp
62 Eldrac's Armory.esp
63 Skip Tutorial.esp
64 Knights.esp
65 Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6]
66 FCOM_Knights.esp [Version 0.9.8]
67 Better Cities Full.esp
68 Better Cities - Full Additions.esp
69 Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp
6A Better Cities Full - LEYAWIIN No Flooding.esp
6B Francesco's 10 days respawn time - 1-20 day lenght rescale.esp
6C Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Loot.esp
6D Francesco's Optional House Chest Loot.esp
6E Francesco's Slower skills x1.5.esp
6F Francesco's Optional New Adventurers.esp
70 Francesco's Optional Vendor Tweaks.esp
71 Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
72 Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests.esp
73 Francesco's Optional Leveled Arena.esp
74 actors_in_charge.esp
75 Call Steed 2.5+Saddlebags 0.91.esp
76 PWM_Armoured-UnicornMount.esp [Version 2.0.0]
77 personality_idles4.esp
78 SupremeMagicka.esp [Version 0.79b]
79 SM_DLCSpellTome.esp [Version 0.70]
7A SM_ShiveringIsles.esp [Version 0.79]
7B SM_MMMCompatability.esp [Version 0.79]
7C AWS-ShiveringIsles.esp
7D SM_OOO.esp [Version 0.75]
7E SuddenViolence_CombatMoves.esp
7F SuddenViolence_Push.esp
80 SuddenViolence_Sprint.esp
81 SuddenViolence_ElementalSpells.esp
82 Living Economy.esp
83 Living Economy - Items.esp
84 CM Partners.esp [Version 1.8]
85 CM Partners Marker NPCs.esp
86 CCompanionOne.esp
87 CCompanionTwo.esp
88 DAMeridiaKatrina.esp
89 DAGolden Saint.esp
8A Visually Enchanted 2.1.esp
8B Corean_hair_for_Original_race.esp
8C IDKRRR_C_race.esp
8D Beautiful People.esp
8E Streamline 3.1.esp
8F ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp
90 Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Sativarg
Archive invalidation?

Look for some missing or misplaced files. (a folder named data in the data folder or *.nif *.dds files in the data folder)
Make sure you didn't use Bash Patch to merge a mod that should not be unchecked.
RyuNoKami
thanks. it did work i knew i forgot to do something in Wyre Bash.
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