I was just skimming TT again today and the book happened to fall open on the bit where Frodo is threatening gollum in the taming of smeagol He says something about claiming the ring and telling gollum to throw himself off of a precipice or into the fire if he did wrong and then he says something like, "and such would be my command." do you think JJRT was reffering to this with what happens to gollum? Does everybody already know about this; and am I just really stupid not to have got this from the first reading?


*edited some of the most horrific spelling and grammar errors I have ever made. bet you wouldn't know I'm an honours student.

I dont remember that part... The only thing I really remember that was referring to Gollums fate was Gandalf saying something about "he may still have a part to play" or something to that effect, telling Frodo not to kill him.

Yeah, the only time Frodo threatens Gollum and metions the Cracks of Doom, is in Mordor when Gollum gets the jump on Frodo and Sam. Frodo fights him and then says to him (to the extent of) 'Down you wretched thing, if you try to interfere with me again, you yourself shall be cast into the Cracks of Doom' or something around those lines. Frodo never mentions that in The Taming of Smeagol.

The passage maia mentioned can be found in the chapter 'The Black Gate is Closed' in TTT.

I had never taken it to refer to Gollum's end, but rather as a threat Frodo uses to scare Gollum - after all Frodo doesn't get a chance to command Gollum in the end...

On second thoughts, however, another line in that passage sounds much more prophetic:

'But the desire of it may betray you to a bitter end' - as it did.

Foreshadowing maybe?

Well, DUH...

(not to sound snide or anything, but those books are RIPE with foreshadowing)

But I didn't know Frodo tries to scare Gollum in that chapter (Black Gates Closed) with the suggestion of Gollum going into the Cracks of Doom. I thought Frodo never told or hinted at that (the destruction of the Ring), and that Gollum followed them to the Cracks of Doom and then figured out what they were trying to do and attacked them.

Maybe the ring does give Frodo foreshadowing powers... although he might not be aware of them.

The first time he "feels" something strange is back in the Shire, when he tells Pippin and Sam to get out of the road and wait hidden for the horse that is approaching. He "feels" there is something strange going on, but he calms himself thinking it may be Gandalf.

IMHO, Frodo, without knowing, may have foreseen the future of Gollum, just like Gandalf did when he stated that he thought that Gollum had some part to play before the end.

What Frodo says is something along the lines of that he would rather claim the ring for himself and order gollum to jump into the fire than allow him to have it. He then says something like such would be his command if he claimed it. I think that's more than foresight/foreshadowing.