First, please, delete this topic if it was answered before but i've searched the forums for "orc light" and nothing was found.

I was thinking that it the books, Tolkien says that the light affects the orcs, they fear it, but i can't remember if HE (In capitals because HE is Tolkien ) said in what way the light affects orcs. It hurt them?

In the merpg (sorry, I know the memod is not based in merpg, and i'm agree that it don't fit into tolkien world, if you follow the rules ), the sun make them slower, more weak, and other things.

Can anyone tell me if in the books are named the effects and if they will affect the orcs in the game?.

And Trolls?, will they turn to stone when the light comes?. The AI of the Troll NPC will be realist (they will not move until light comes ).

Thanks for your answers

I got the Weapons and Warefare book for X-mas (load of utter tripe made to cash in on films, do not buy it ever ever!) which says that the normal Orcs that Sauron first created were unable to go out into the light because it physically burnt them unless really forced to, but the Urk-Hai (sp?) were immune. The Trolls were apparently much the same.

BTW: I am basing all this on the book which i have just said is terrible, which i should explain. It has been based on the films alone, so no research has been done into the actual facts as Tolkien wrote them. I'm only offering it as something that has one theory.

One correction: Morgoth made the Orcs, not Sauron. If it's written like like this in the book (about Sauron), then the rest is probably also a load of bull****.

Be careful then with the book if it has been based on the films alone, because there were (too) many aspects of the films that were not canonical. If you want a true Tolkien spirit, avoid that kind of books.

Just an advice ^_^

In Bilbo the Trolls turn to stone when the sun goes up if I remember right..

Tell me about it. My dad decided to get me it for X-Mas (i had requested the Silmarillion; slight difference). It has loads of grammatical errors, including a [check] in the middle of a dubiously researched sentence. It has all the hallmarks of a rushed cash-in on the films. Oh well.

That's the part of the story I don't like about making a trilogy of films about The Lord of the Rings.

It's always OK to see Middle-Earth and your favourite characters in the cinema, with all those stupendous visual and sound effects, that marvellous cast and all that (although maybe Gandalf's role is slightly and unfairly reduced ).

But the dark side of the story is that for us "Pure-Tolkien fans", there are a lot of modified things that don't fit in our minds, and the merchandise stuff that comes out of the mediatic boom of the films is not always OK (well, I should say almost never OK).

But don't worry, you're in the right forum in here, and anyone of us who knows about anything you might doubt can help you. There are many Tolkien specialists in here (not me, note it ).

Yeah, I was angry with the fact that the Trivial Pursuit game was based on the 'Movie Trilogy' and not the Books. Another attempt to cash in on the LotR enterprise. Same with the Risk games, Hasbro made a LotR Risk version, and then a Risk LotR: Trilogy Version. The former has all the lands save for Mordor, Gondor, and anything else in that vicinity. The latter has all of the lands including the afore mentioned that the former lacks. It obviously was a marketting ploy to rip unsuspecting fans off, gotta love the United States of Corporations. (I haven't bought any yet, and doubt I will).

It's sad seeing LotR become mainstream, one thing that I curse PJ for, and ironically praise him at the same time since I get to see my favorite Books come to life on the Big Screen. Another is the fact that most people STILL don't want to read the books after seeing the movie. Which is disappointing, but it also preserves (in a way) the inner-circle of Tolkien fans from being infiltrated by the manstream media, curse it's black heart and very existence.

I agree, I don't like it becoming mainstream. But I still praise PJ because, like you say, because I get to see one of the greatest book trilogies of books on screen. And, if you watch the extras on the extended edition, you'll see how much work they put into the movies.

And the Uru-kai are unaffected by the light. And, in the Hobbit, the trolls are turned into stone when the sun arose. [I believe]

There will always be people who don't like the books... I know it's crazy, but there is people who EVEN don't enjoy reading a good book... EVEN if it's The Lord of the Rings

And, to back Slaiv sentence, yes, the trolls turned into stone when the Sun rose. Gandalf was cheating on them imitating their voices, and so they were discussing how to cook the hobbit all the night, until the Sun rose and they were turned into stone. B)

Now that I come to this, I remember that in the films, Aragorn tried to heal Frodo in the very spot where the stone trolls were... Which is again wrong. It's OK that PJ "inserted" a reference of something funny like that, but it's yet another thing from the movies that I don't like... As well as Tom Bombadil not appearing, or Glorfindel, or...

I'd better stop <_<

Huh? Is this in the extended edition of the film?

Anyway, there are a load of references that have been moved about to make it better in terms of cinematography (ah, long words :help: ). For example, the reference to the ethalas plant (correct spelling? I have no idea) to Sam in FOTR, which appears in ROTK in the House of Healing in Minas Tirith.

Really i think we owe PJ a real debt of gratitude, since he has made the books one of the most widely-read books ever published, and creating in my opinion the best triolgy of films ever made (this includes the Star Wars trilogy, which is damn high praise coming from me).

In the normal edition you can see them (the trolls), but in the extended edition one of the hobbits, I think, says that they have to be the trolls bilbo talked about in the hobbit.

And, whats about Orcs, trolls and sunlight effect on them?? :_ i feel ignored XD

Well, actually the book WAS the best book of the twentieth century according to the readers, so PJ has nothing to do with that. I think we owe a great load of gratitude to Tolkien's editors, who first took the risk of publish the book Anyway, Tolkien himself must have a monument somewhere for his works. ^_^

And to my fellow Spanish colleague Seregmegil, I'm sorry but I don't know about the effect sunlight has in orcs. I just remember mordor orcs telling Uglúk they couldn't run under the sunlight, but I don't even remember if I read it in the books or I heard it in the films...

OMG, knowledge is mixing up in my mind!!! :blink:

Me too, I'm starting to mix the films with the books XDD.

I have to read the books another time but due to the LoTR fever, my books are every one on a friend's house.

And I mix the Merp (and Rolemaster Fantasy too) with the books :_

Uruk-hai are most definitely not affected by sun light (this explanation is a tad long).
During the siege of Helm's Deep Aragorn goes out and stands above the gates. The orcs tell him (yes orcs can talk) to come down if he wishes to talk, and to bring the King with him. Aragorn answers by saying that the King comes and goes of his own accord. The orcs then ask why has he come out, Argorn simply says "I looked out to see dawn." The orcs answer: "What of Dawn? We are the Uruk-hai: we do not stop the fight for night or day, for fair weather of for storm. We come to kill, by sun or moon. What of the dawn?"
The Uruk-hai obviously don't care about the sun, so they are not affected.

*applaudes

Nice post!

Also, to pose a bit of query for that particular section of the book...why didn't the Uruks just shoot Aragorn dead with a bow and arrow? I mean, come on, they're ORCS. Aragorn holds his hand up in parlay, and the Orcs STOP. Orcs aren't supposed to stop! For crying out loud, they're ORCS! ORCS ARE EVIL, and not to be trusted! And if I was an Uruk archer and I saw Aragorn come out onto the battlements in full view, I would sure as hell take that opportunity to put an arrow or two in him.

That section of the book bothered me, it was like saying 'Orcs are evil despicable and bloodthirsty creatures who rape and pillage (not in that particular order)' *long pause* 'But they also abide by the noble rules of warfare'.

It's because the escene have to be Epic

I'm happy because the thread is going in the way I wanted. I already know about the Uruks and the light

I was thinking in the film, the minas tirith battle lasts almost several days, as i remember, and in the films, the Mordor army uses Trolls to charge the catapults. What they do when the sun comes?. If they turn to stone maybe orcs destroy them to use as munition??? XDD

Well, if there is anything strange to you in the films, just think "oh, these are the films", and you'll get the answer.

Why the trolls that wanted to cook Bilbo now are three large pieces of stone, and those trolls in the Battle of the Pelennor fields are not? Well, maybe PJ has the answer...

Well, part of it was that Sauron had sent his Shadow over the Mountains of Shadow, thereby blotting out the Sun and making it very dark. If you remember in the books, it says that his Shadow crosses over the river and that all is gray, etc. etc. ad nauseam.

Though, I was wondering why PJ never showed the great reeks that Orodruin sent out to cover the lands. That miffed me a tad...

It would have been too canon to include in the films...

Yeah... I guess we can't have everything, can we?

oh well, PJ did a bang-up job anyhow. More power to him.

I am still bugged by the fact of no Tom Bombadil.

Actually, I like the movies a lot. What I don't like is that there are a lot of important things that PJ just leaves aside or, what in my opinion is even worse, he changes to his purposes. He should have kept more true to Tolkien works.

But the movies are OK, no problem. I've seen RotK twice and I plan to see it at least once more in the cinema

Well, this has gone just a tad OT. But I was thinking (gasp!) if a topic has been answered (I am not sure if this one has completley, but for arguments sake let's say it has), and we then stray off the topic since we already have the answer, couldn't a Mod or Dev just change the title of the thread to the new topic that's being discussed? Or would they just lock it and move the posts to a new section?

I love the movies...some things like the ommission of Tom Bombadil i can definitely understand...it would be really hard to sell Bombadil on film to people who have never read the books...the only thing that really really bothered me was how Boromir and Faramir were portrayed...does anyone know why they did that?

Well, I don't know if you're right or not, but Tolkien says in a letter that "Trolls are mere counterfeits and hence they return to mere stone images when not in darkness".

If there are kins that are not affected by sunlight I do not know, but maybe those Mordor trolls (or Olog-hai) could endure sunlight due to the influence of Sauron... That makes sense to me.

Apologies

I remember this line from the appendix in ROTK : the olog hai (mordor bred, more cunning and ruthless) are immune to the power of the sun, as long as the power of their dark master drives them. This means that after sauron's defeat, only those still in darkness survived (maybe females or children, if there are such things).

And orcs are not burned by the sunlight. All through the books and the silmarilion , my impression was that they react to the sun the same way our primitive ancestors reacted to darkness. Night was probably an evil time. You were blinded by shadows and stalked by predators. Orcs are probably affected by the sun in the same manner - a perioud of blinding light and pain, but also of primal fear that is awakened, they are both blinded and filled with fear.

In game effect this would mean they suffer at least 50% blind effect, and their inclination to run away rises, when in sunlight. Uruk hai are immune to this effect, and as it is in the books, they are probably very proud of it, and filled with scorn for the other orc races.
Btw there were many orc types in tolkien's stories, and their sub race determined their "class" or position.... very very scary if you think about it, and certainly similar to the real world, even today

What do you mean?
Are you still getting at that Tolkien was racist?

Hope he doesn't...