I've always longed to see the finished written story of the Dagor Dagorath personally, I got so wound up about it that to satisfy myself I even had a go at trying to write it myself, but I got bored after a few thousand words and besides, my writing is nowhere near as good as Tolkiens.

So yeah, what do you wish Tolkien had written the full account of? The coming of the Istari perhaps? Aragorn's reign as King? Or are you with me, longing to see the result of Morgoth coming back for the final war, Manwe himself coming forth to face him one on one, and the ultimate battle?

I wish that Tolkien had written more about the historical acts like the story of beren, that could be a book of 1000 pages

or the birth of the elven, sounds great to me

and indeed dagor dagorath would be fantastic too. though, when you've read lotr to the end you can hardly imagine that anything bad still exists

Tolkien did start on a sequel to LotR, though he only got twenty pages into it before stopping. He felt it would be more of a thriller than what LotR was, and that it would never measure up to it. I think it is called 'The New Shadow' or something, it takes place in the Fourth Age and involves Aragorn's son, I have never read it but I know it is featured in one of the 'Lost Tales' books or soemthing like that...I really can't remember.

IMHO, Dagor Dagorlath wouldn't be a good story, if it was told like LotR. If there were any drawings by John Howe or that other guy, that would be cool. But I don't really think it would work out as a story, unless told like the Silmarillion or something to that effect. I also wish Tolkien wrote more in detail (like in Unfinished Tales with Aldarion and Erendis, and Tuor coming to Gondolin) about the First Age. And concerning the Elves, and how they came to Valinor, instead of paraphrasing all of their actions that took the course of hundreds of years into a few short summaries.

Also, didn't Tolkien state that he wanted others to add stories to Middle-Earth's 'Universe' and make their own tales? I thought I read that somewhere...

I'm sure if Tolkien had lived a hundred years he would have written a lot more about all those things you said.

I personally wouldn't like to hear about the Dagor Dagorath: it's a bit like the 'end of the world', and you'll know then there's nothing more afterwards, it's like the ending of it all. And I personally like open endings, like the LotR one, in which your imagination and your interpretation of things are the key. It's better to imagine rather than being told.

But I would also have liked to read more about Beren and Lúthien, about Gil-Galad, about Fëanor, ... There are so many things...

I think that most people (as in, me) wanted him to go into more detail with the characters and their lives. Fëanor strikes me as being a really interesting character, but because he is not detailed then i have to assume. I would have preferred if he had gone into more detail in almost every aspect of the characters and their actions, but if he had it would have been longer than the Bible and may have lost the brilliance that comes through in the books.

If Tolkien did mean for others to add to the world he created, then this would make a lot of sense. The Wars of Beleriand could be an excellent backdrop to good stories, the Numenoreans could have hundreds of "interesting adventures and tales of mystery and courage"... the list is endless. Take any part of the Middle Earth lore and you could write a story the same length as LotR.

Well, if you want me, i'll be using Word.

:nazgul:

I would love to know more about Radagast. He seems to me to be one of the least known of the more powerful people in the lands.

To be honest I liked the way Tolkien left Middle-Earth. I don't know that I would have liked him to write any more because then it might not be the same as it is now. There was enough written to give us this wonderfully vibrant world but yet not enough so as to leave much to the imagination which I think is part of the splendor of Middle-Earth. I would have liked Tolkien to write some more of his other fantasy novels along the lines of Farmer Giles of Ham or the Father Christmas letters. They were always very enjoyable reads.

Tom Bombadil

I think that if Tolkien wrote anything more set in Middle-Earth, it would concerning events in the First Age, Second Age, and Third Age (before Bilbo's Birth or before the Hobbit.)

Lord of the Rings seems to me like a book to end the Middle-Earth 'saga' on, since if Tolkien wrote anything else in the Fourth Age it would undoubtedley be either a thriller or lack the content that LotR had. It would lack any interest from me because the Elves wouldn't be in it, or even if they were their part would be greatly diminished, more so than it was in LotR.

IMO, He couldn't write a book on the Dagor Dagorlath because, as Jesugandalf pointed out, it would be THE end, of ALL things. Also, for the fact that he wrote several ways the Dagorlath would play out; of course all ending with the destruction of Morgoth by the hands of either Tulkas, Tuor, or some other character that Morgoth couldn't leave well-enough alone, we already know how it's going to ends so there won't be any surpirse.
In short, I think that the most we can do is what loveme4whoIam is attempting to do. By writing and expanding the realm of Middle-Earth, and staying true to the content and Tolkien's vision, like MEmod is doing, we can further the story and further the richness of Tolkien's world.

Yeah, but who is the brave who dares to write something about the Tolkien world and share it with, let's say, us???

Not me, surely! Too much caché for my writing skills!

I'd attempt it, but not before I own every book that Tolkien has written, and become fluent in ALL of the Elven Tongues and know all the Lore of the Wise...


So in other words, never...^_^

I wish he would have written stories of the adventures Gimli and Legolas had. There's so much material about the First Age that I just don't care about. I prefer more likable characters, and I find Gimli to be incredibly likable.

They were likeable characters, but the adventures of Gimli and Legolas, IMO, wouldn't have been a good story. And, surprisingly, I find Leoglas to be likeable character.

You could write some stories about their travels after LotR...actually, some stories concerning them (if written excellently) might not be a bad idea. I change my opinion, because they were such interesting characters and they didn't leave for Valinor until the rest of the Fellowship had passed away or passed into the West as well (Sam).

I bravely take up the challenge :bye:



This is completely true, as i've said in other threads. I doubt if i'll ever learn ALL the Elvish tongues, but after i've finished my Spanish A-Level (damned hard as it is) i'll try. The challenge to add to the rich environment of Tolkien's world is both the most inviting thing in the world for me as a writer, but also the scariest, as i'd have to convince all the fans out there (such as you guys) into believing that i have half the skills of JRR.

In short, the only person who can truely add to the world is JRR (or possibly his son), and the rest of us must simply be content with hoping to match some of Tolkien's masterpieces.

Can still dream though. BTW: Does anyone mind me taking notes of these ideas for future reference? I have several of my own (need loads of developing) but its nice to see what the fan community think.

Hard?

I found it very easy to learn it... English was quite more difficult to me than Spanish... :bleh:

Jesugandalf Posted on Jan 16 2004, 09:43 AM



Ok, well, that's because you're from Spain...but English is more difficult, simply by the knowlledge that we have three ways in which read can be said. (and have different meanings as well)

What's the third way to say read??

Well, it technically isn't spelled 'read' but 'reed'. It means a type of long grass found in wetlands or lakes. But it SOUNDS just like read (present-tense). Also 'read' (past-tense) sounds just like 'red' the color. English is a very difficult language to learn, when it comes down to that sort of stuff.

I think, like Jesugandalf, that spanish is more dificult to learn, because we have to learn too many diferent ways to write and say the diferent uses of the verbs, and we have 3 ways for all these ways. Its dificult to explain but i'll try (may jesugandalf will explain better than me, i'm from tecnologic studies not from language studies ).

I have the verb "sing" that is "Cantar" in infinitive, if i want to say "I sing", I have to say "Yo canté", but "you sing" is "Tu Cantas" and the thirth form is diferent, and every one is diferent.

And if we want to say "I sang" it is "Yo Canté" and it's diferent for every one of the rest of the conjugation.

And this is by this way for the present, past, and every tense.

But it can be complicated ebcause the verb "loss" that is "Perder" is diferent and you have to do the same that with "cantar" but changing the terminations in "-ar" by "-er".

And this is only with the verbs, we also have words with the same sound, I think it is imposible to not to do.

And I think that it is well explained I don't know how to say better.

Yeah, when I was taking Spanish in High School, the part that always killed me was the 'tenses'. I could never get them right, and the fact that my teacher was a slacker (it was said that if you were in his class, you wouldn't retain anything you learned. It was true, sadly) and a poor Spanish teacher at that.

Guys, guys, you really shouldn't take Russian, when you think that Spanish is difficult... I don't have it, but you can take a Russian-course at our gymnasium. It has about six tenses (Russian, not the course )

And Ancient-Greek: Well, I can't complain about the tenses (only four) but the vocabulary is horrible, a lot of words with four or five sylabs and with stress at the last sylab :blink: And don't forget the words with four vowels following eachother!

Latin is much easier. It is read as it is written and is competly logical, there aren't any exceptions. Well, that is what I call a dead-language :rip: Oh, did I forget to mention that Latin helps you to get better at maths?

Gott sei dank, dass jeder weiss, dass ich German-Speaker bin, äh, heiss!

German is cool when it comes to reading, because everything is said as it is written (OK, there are some compound-sound which you have to learn, but they stay always the same and there are only few of them: eu, ei, sch, ch, ae, oe, ue), but the tenses and conjugations are horrible, because the tenses have a very difficult system and all the transitive verbs are irregular

Well, if anyone really wants to have a linguistic challenge, he or she should try to learn some caucassian languages: they've got sometimes about 80 consonants! Oh, not to forget that those languages are alltogether agglutating (for those who don't no the meaning of this word: This is a language which doesn't change their words but adds different syllabs to it, so that you can say what you want to say. e. g. one syllab is the verb for "to go", the other one states that this is the third person, the next one that it is in the singular, the next one that it is in the present, the next one that it is in the indicative etc.)

Also Mandarin is very difficult to learn, because it is a tune-languages (has about 8 different tunes). Mandarin is a isolating language, the words are fixed and can't be changed (e.g. you have the word for "to go". To say "he is going", you add a different word in front of the word "to go" which means "he" and then another word which indicates that this is the present; in the end this looks like this: "He (present) go"), the meaning of a sentence depends on its structure.

Ah yes, to add something about Tolkiens languages: The elvish tongues resemble somewhat the celtic languages and are flectating (that means they change their words in order to give them different meanings, e.g. for a verb there is the infinitive, you change the verb a little and now it is the third person singular present, e.g. "to go", "he goes", "he went")

About Russian - what complicates things is the grammatical gender. Words of different gender change differently. I live in Estonia and speak Russian natively, but I just can't understand how the people who don't speak it, but rather learn, remember it all.

As Loveme4whoIam says, I too am attempting to take up the challenge, not just for MeMod, but personally as well.

One of the problems is trying to describe something and keep it at least close to a tolkienesque style. When I write, I tend to create deep characters, then follow them around and write what happens. I find myself writing about things in my style, with things that are out of canon happening.

When I write stuff about ME that are not for MeMod, I will be happy to post them on the site for criticism/enjoyment (some people get insane joy at the criticism part). I always like constructive criticism.

Well, I need to make a correction to a statement that I made earlier, in some other post I can't remember. I had stated that there was only one surviving Balrog after the War of Wrath. However, I misquoted the Sil.; there were some few that fled and hid themselves in deep caverns 'inaccessible at the roots of the mountains'.

If anyone would want to create a tale cocnerning the fate of these Balrogs (as in later Ages, namly the Fourth or even Second since little is documented of the Second age save for the focus on Numenor) and the possibility of one or two of them wreaking terror upon the lands, etc. I think it coul be done without upsetting the Timline...

There were 3 Balrog's that survived the War of Wrath.

-- D

Do you know what befell them? Aside from the one that hid itself near Moria, and was later uncovered by the Dwarves...

That's still two Balrogs left in ME, though if they were at the roots of the mountains I doubt that they would bother anyone anymore...

"Deleted" -> Greywolf

Reason: Flame.

I think thats flaming. Is that flaming?

*ponders*

Well the last post not really on topic was about six days ago, so and since noone complained until now, I don't see much of a problem. Besides the thread is back on track now.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

"Edited" - > Greywolf

Reason: Removed Quote of flame. and it is.

Edited -> Greywolf

Reason: Confirmed flaming in prior post, insulted mod team's effeciency.

Of note: I as a mod recieved no report on this post and have been busy trying to get some work down on memod ... don't insult us, moderators try to do their jobs efficently but we are only human and can not be everywhere at once ... thus the purpose of the report function.


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Oh yeah, the thread.....um oh yeah I really wish Tolkien had written more about....oh, let's say....Elves.

...

Man, I wouldn't be talking like that; I would change my words if I were you, so when a Mod comes and reads your post they won't be as harsh...

That's just rude, and the Russian/Spanish OT discussion was over a week ago. So next time you post a flame on an OT, make sure you do so when the OT is actually occuring and not several days after the fact.

Which in fact means that he is criticising somebody for doing (or more exactly "not doing") the same thing he wasn't doing... If you had noticed before, there is a small option in the upper right corner of each post which reads "report" you should have clicked on: you can report to a moderator and tell him or her you think there is an irregularity on the forums.

Have you wondered that if none of the mods has closed this thread is maybe because the discussion that was taking place in it was interesting? I did, and that's why I didn't complain. The mods are here to moderate, remember, and they do their job perfectly well. They don't need us going around and criticising them.

That's my opinion.

Beat me to it Jesugandalf,

as for this thread, I wish tokien had written more on basically everything ... but wishing and reality is always two seperate things.

I'm making this public and i'm adding it to the MEMod Rules post in the General Discussion board.

I apologize for the pseudo vigilante act. I was going to report it, but I wasn't sure if it was an actual flame or not. But the mods themselves did a better job.

Back on topic, could one possibly wirte a story concerning the other two Balrogs left in Middle-Earth? Suppose they were somehow uncovered in later times, the Elves are gone and so are the Istari. All you have is Men, possibly Hobbits, and possibly rarely Dwarves. Not much to defend against a Demon of the Ancient World.

I mean, that's a heck of a thing to overlook and leave behind. The story would probably be a thriller in most cases, but still, talk about your loose ends that need some tying up!

This whole post is kind of off-topic. I tought I'd follow the masses here and try it too. (Meaning this isn't the only OT post in this thread).

Im curious, just where is it stated that 3 balrogs survived the War of Wrath? I assume it's somewhere in the HoME series becouse I haven't read any of those books. I tried to check quickly from The Encyclopedia of Arda but all I got was the same as from the Silmarillion: "The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth"

So just asking has Tolkien ever given the actual number of existing balrogs after the end of the First Age? And if he has, in which book may I find it. I definately have to get the HoME series..

I know that Tolkien changed his mind rather often concerning the number of balrogs. And I've read the same thing many other times (that 3 survived). So if Daerk could give me the source for this info I'd be pretty pleased. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that I don't trust you or something like that but I like to be absolutely sure about things. In my opinion that is better than just take something someone complete stranger says for granted.

Well, Glorfindel destroyed a Balrog, but at the cost of his own life. And Turgon destroyed Gothmog, but again, it cost him his life. So I would think that the Elves from the Elder Days could have destroyed A Balrog, not mutliple Balrogs. But again, the facts show that whoever took on a Balrog one-on-one never walked away from the battle.

Does anyone have any information on how this was achieved; that is, canonical references (an i using this word correctly? I don't really care, it seems like something Daerk would say, so it must be right ). I only own The Silmarillion and The Two Towers (read the LotR by nicking them off my sister) so i can't check it myself. Hmm... i''ll check the Encyclopedia of Arda just incase somethings on there as well. Shall edit with what i find.

EDIT: Havent turned up anything on the EoA, so i'm pretty certain that there aren't any text-based facts on the subject. All i've found is this:

(this is small part is ot but Dradum_Fairoak your stats dont show you as a mod orr a teamster im not sying you are not im jsut trying to inform you just so you could get that fixed)
now back on topic
loveme4whoiam could you please write on that if there is no info on the eoa though i have only the lotr and so am quite ignorant i would love to find out what happend even if its not by tolkien (praises him; then thinks about the last time he praised daerk and desides to pray to his allmighty God) cuz you seem to know quite a bit and i would love to see some examples of your writing cuz my best friend is in the prossess of writing a novel and (probably will never get finished ) so i need some thing to tide me over

(i hope this makes sence)

Are you mental?

Read back....I'm not a mod, I was (not criticizing the mods, because that would be a very not nice thing to do, although I said it was before, due to realization that I love these forums I have changed my mind).


*Edit my Elrol*

Hmm....I think most people wouldn't like to see this collapse into a flame war...so please don't make any accusing/could-be-taken-wrong-way comments..

Thanks,
Dave

Stay on topic from here out, or i'll kill this thread. I'd hate for this to turn into a flamewar.


-The Raven-out

oops i missread your post and thought you edited Whitewolf's post
(i havent been sleeping wel llately so i am not thinking strait (i know i spelled it wrong its just i cant think of the write spelling at the momment)
so my appoligies to the mods and to you Dradum_Fairoak even though i dont know why someone would take offence to being misstaken for a mod and i hope that this is the end of this because i for one deffenetly dont want to set off a flame war...
now back on the topic....

I would have liked to read more detail about the Avari, the Elves (Moriquendi?) that shunned the call to Valinor.

Also, a little OT...

Has anyone read an excellent piece of Tolkien Fan Writing called Isildur?

Yes, but now that you gave the link...

Anyway, seems very good to me, and not too OT as you may think...

Eh, it was an alright story (for a fan fiction at least). But I found that the writer plagerized Tolkien on some parts. There is one part where during a sea battle with the Elves the writer uses a saying or such that can be found in The Hobbit during the Battle of Five Armies; this is what the writer says: ' and many a fair Elf that should have lived yet long ages would never see Elvenhome.'

Again, it's practically ripping off Tolkien, as in page 283 on the chapter The Clouds Burst, Tolkien writes : '...and many a fair elf that should have lived yet long ages merrily in the wood.'

There were other instances where the writer practically did the same thing; I found that this lessened his story and its appeal to me. Also, it was too much of a thriller, and there were too many things that he assumed could happen, but in reality for Tolkien's world really couldn't. As in the using of the Three Rings to draw out Sauron from Barad Dur.

I will write more on this, but I gotta go to class...

From a writers standpoint, what the author has done is a hard literary trap not to fall in, especially with someone like Tolkien, who practically invented a style of writing. I haven't read the story yet, since i'm damn busy with college work and writing my own, which i cannot stress enough *in a loud stage whisper hints: please go to the thread i've set up in Off-Topics, its really important*.

I sincerely doubt that anyone who has tried to write something in Tolkien's world hasn't dipped into plagerism at one time or another, whether conciously or no.