People always asked them selfs,are we alone in universe? ARE WE ALONE??? ...who will answer on this question,and are we ever gonna get answer?
Do you guys believe in extraterrestrial beings?
...and what do you think,what are they meaning to do,maybe smack us all,or just come to a friendly visit...
...who knows maybe they are watching us all the time,studying us and stuff...
...tell me,what do you think?
Here are some videos from YouTube which are very interesting,some are long,but check them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJAEVjJtMuU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqFv9nDdkEA...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewY56Pz1gHw...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVgkUq75Sng...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Hy6qcRZkU...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU7Q4xzQiuo...feature=related
Full Version: Are we alone?
I highly doubt there are extraterrestrial beings out there in the universe wanting to come visit us, but I am certainly open to the idea of extra-solar life being a very real possibility.
I am also open to the idea of other terrestrial-like planets that are able to support complex ecosystems like here on Earth.
I am also open to the idea of other terrestrial-like planets that are able to support complex ecosystems like here on Earth.
The first video is obviously fake. It's even called "SpoofTube." You can't honestly believe anything from that, can you?
I think life undoubtedly exists, but much of it probably isn't intelligent life, and much of the intelligent life that does exist is too far away for communication. According to the Drake equation (with current estimated values), there are, at best, two planets with intelligent life in our galaxy that we can have any hope of communication with. That's not very good. So, I believe that intelligent life exists, but it has never contacted us. Now, I'm not doubting that people have seen things, but I don't think it's aliens. Why would the government want to hide that? I think it's, instead, high tech research into things we can only dream of for the explicit purpose of war, like the atomic bombs. I think the government is using the 'alien conspiracy' to cover up their research. In their tests, they purposely make things look like alien spacecraft to fuel the fires. I wouldn't even doubt that the government 'abducts' people to preform mock experiments just to further the thought of aliens.
Obviously, I have no proof, and, therefore, will not debate it, but I'm just saying that I think the government is secretly creating even more massive tools of war. Besides, this makes more sense than aliens, no matter how insane it sounds, and it sounds pretty insane.
Also, you have to ask yourself, "Wouldn't aliens want to stay away from warmongers like us?" We continuously fight over every little thing. If the aliens made themselves known, we'd probably haste our space travel and weapon research so we could go out there are kill them. At least, that's what I would think if I were an alien. Just look at our past. The 30 Years War was the bloodiest war in history, up to that point, and was fought between Catholics and Protestants. It's not like it was even two completely different religions. Countless people were slaughtered because of various minute differences. Just imagine what we'd do, or at least attempt to do, to the aliens!
I think life undoubtedly exists, but much of it probably isn't intelligent life, and much of the intelligent life that does exist is too far away for communication. According to the Drake equation (with current estimated values), there are, at best, two planets with intelligent life in our galaxy that we can have any hope of communication with. That's not very good. So, I believe that intelligent life exists, but it has never contacted us. Now, I'm not doubting that people have seen things, but I don't think it's aliens. Why would the government want to hide that? I think it's, instead, high tech research into things we can only dream of for the explicit purpose of war, like the atomic bombs. I think the government is using the 'alien conspiracy' to cover up their research. In their tests, they purposely make things look like alien spacecraft to fuel the fires. I wouldn't even doubt that the government 'abducts' people to preform mock experiments just to further the thought of aliens.
Obviously, I have no proof, and, therefore, will not debate it, but I'm just saying that I think the government is secretly creating even more massive tools of war. Besides, this makes more sense than aliens, no matter how insane it sounds, and it sounds pretty insane.
Also, you have to ask yourself, "Wouldn't aliens want to stay away from warmongers like us?" We continuously fight over every little thing. If the aliens made themselves known, we'd probably haste our space travel and weapon research so we could go out there are kill them. At least, that's what I would think if I were an alien. Just look at our past. The 30 Years War was the bloodiest war in history, up to that point, and was fought between Catholics and Protestants. It's not like it was even two completely different religions. Countless people were slaughtered because of various minute differences. Just imagine what we'd do, or at least attempt to do, to the aliens!
I'm open to the idea of life being out there, I'm similarly open to the idea of intelligent life, I'm less open, but don't think I'd even be TOO surprised if they had visited this planet. As much as we like to think we know it all, I think there's a lot out there we don't. Science is brittle; new discoveries are made every day and theories thought to be solid are often disproven and replaced with new up-to-date theories. What isn't possible today may be possible tomorrow.
I wouldn't rule out aliens as much as I wouldn't rule out there being a deity of some kind. That's not a religious debate, merely a sign of how open I am to both
I wouldn't rule out aliens as much as I wouldn't rule out there being a deity of some kind. That's not a religious debate, merely a sign of how open I am to both
Statistically it’s virtually impossible that our solar system is the only one which evolved life and then again intelligent life (the fundamental rule of intelligent life is the ability to be self-aware and the whole philosophical “I am” statement).
However due to the vastness of space (even between stars, much less throughout the galaxy and much LESS between galaxies, the chances of two space worthy races communicating are, with current technology, virtually nil.
Plus if the galaxy were like Star Wars or Star Trek and just teaming with life, it really would throw a damper or the preverbal monkey wrench into the machine of men (at least for the group I’m referring to in this statement) who have this superiority complex and “the universe revolves around us” principle (metaphorically). This is something I would love actually, because I like to “stir the pooe up” and rile fundamentalist thinking
That whole “man is the center of the universe” was derived from…. Well… I know where it comes from - I took college astronomy and one of the chapters was about Galileo, Copernicus, and other such men who really wanted answers instead of ‘belief’ and who didn’t believe in the “we were where it’s at” principle.
I personally would love to find out we are ‘not alone’ but until we develop ‘faster than light’ travel by some sort of space-folding method (a ‘la Dune style), we’ll never know. Yet I do feel we as a species are ‘just out of the trees’. We’re not as evolved and superior as we’d like to think. Think about all the funky things mankind does that no other species that aren’t as ‘evolved’ do, like murder (for fun) and necrophilia, and dozens more examples of how mankind is a bit ‘screwy’.
And you wonder why a UFO doesn’t just float down and say hello? *smirks* But I think it doesn’t matter in the long – run. Humans has such short life spans, unless it’s your job to answer this question, just make the most of your own life.
However due to the vastness of space (even between stars, much less throughout the galaxy and much LESS between galaxies, the chances of two space worthy races communicating are, with current technology, virtually nil.
Plus if the galaxy were like Star Wars or Star Trek and just teaming with life, it really would throw a damper or the preverbal monkey wrench into the machine of men (at least for the group I’m referring to in this statement) who have this superiority complex and “the universe revolves around us” principle (metaphorically). This is something I would love actually, because I like to “stir the pooe up” and rile fundamentalist thinking
That whole “man is the center of the universe” was derived from…. Well… I know where it comes from - I took college astronomy and one of the chapters was about Galileo, Copernicus, and other such men who really wanted answers instead of ‘belief’ and who didn’t believe in the “we were where it’s at” principle.
I personally would love to find out we are ‘not alone’ but until we develop ‘faster than light’ travel by some sort of space-folding method (a ‘la Dune style), we’ll never know. Yet I do feel we as a species are ‘just out of the trees’. We’re not as evolved and superior as we’d like to think. Think about all the funky things mankind does that no other species that aren’t as ‘evolved’ do, like murder (for fun) and necrophilia, and dozens more examples of how mankind is a bit ‘screwy’.
And you wonder why a UFO doesn’t just float down and say hello? *smirks* But I think it doesn’t matter in the long – run. Humans has such short life spans, unless it’s your job to answer this question, just make the most of your own life.
QUOTE(xenxander @ Feb 27 2008, 08:04 PM) 
Plus if the galaxy were like Star Wars or Star Trek and just teaming with life, it really would throw a damper or the preverbal monkey wrench into the machine of men (at least for the group I’m referring to in this statement) who have this superiority complex and “the universe revolves around us” principle (metaphorically). This is something I would love actually, because I like to “stir the pooe up” and rile fundamentalist thinking
That's where we run into the Fermi Paradox. If the galaxy was full of life, we'd know. We'd have known a lot sooner. There'd be evidence such as space probes from other civilisations which just don't exists, radio transmissions from others that we've never received, etc. Also, we'd have found lights from other planets. Here's a picture of what Earth looks like at night. Our lights are plainly visible from space. Unless the other intelligent life lives underground, we'd see them.
That's not to say alien life doesn't exist, it's just that there isn't much of it.
We wouldn't know... our own tech has 'just left our own solar system', referring to Challenger I.
Even if a race were just five systems "that way", it would take upwards of 1000 years for any STL (slower than light) probe to get to us. Even radio waves that travel 'at light speed' still would take about 16,000 years to travel the berth of the galaxy and we've only had waves strong enough to reach space for the last 70 or so years.
Alpha Centauri is only 4.7 light years away but it's clear no life exisist there.. but there are starts that are still a few hundred light years away - still in our back yards, that we must wait centuries for our waves to get to them and still centuries later for their waves to reach us if they receive ours, this is providing they are a culture with radar.. if they are a culture much like our Medieval or ancient greek days, they will not hear our signals for another thousand years.. you see? they could be out there.
Even if a race were just five systems "that way", it would take upwards of 1000 years for any STL (slower than light) probe to get to us. Even radio waves that travel 'at light speed' still would take about 16,000 years to travel the berth of the galaxy and we've only had waves strong enough to reach space for the last 70 or so years.
Alpha Centauri is only 4.7 light years away but it's clear no life exisist there.. but there are starts that are still a few hundred light years away - still in our back yards, that we must wait centuries for our waves to get to them and still centuries later for their waves to reach us if they receive ours, this is providing they are a culture with radar.. if they are a culture much like our Medieval or ancient greek days, they will not hear our signals for another thousand years.. you see? they could be out there.
QUOTE(xenxander @ Feb 27 2008, 09:52 PM)
We wouldn't know... our own tech has 'just left our own solar system', referring to Challenger I.
Even if a race were just five systems "that way", it would take upwards of 1000 years for any STL (slower than light) probe to get to us. Even radio waves that travel 'at light speed' still would take about 16,000 years to travel the berth of the galaxy and we've only had waves strong enough to reach space for the last 70 or so years.
Alpha Centauri is only 4.7 light years away but it's clear no life exisist there.. but there are starts that are still a few hundred light years away - still in our back yards, that we must wait centuries for our waves to get to them and still centuries later for their waves to reach us if they receive ours, this is providing they are a culture with radar.. if they are a culture much like our Medieval or ancient greek days, they will not hear our signals for another thousand years.. you see? they could be out there.
Even if a race were just five systems "that way", it would take upwards of 1000 years for any STL (slower than light) probe to get to us. Even radio waves that travel 'at light speed' still would take about 16,000 years to travel the berth of the galaxy and we've only had waves strong enough to reach space for the last 70 or so years.
Alpha Centauri is only 4.7 light years away but it's clear no life exisist there.. but there are starts that are still a few hundred light years away - still in our back yards, that we must wait centuries for our waves to get to them and still centuries later for their waves to reach us if they receive ours, this is providing they are a culture with radar.. if they are a culture much like our Medieval or ancient greek days, they will not hear our signals for another thousand years.. you see? they could be out there.
Who's to say they didn't evolve before us, advanced quicker than us, and advanced further than us? For all we know, intelligent life could have existed elsewhere for millions of years! If they have, they would have undoubtedly have had radio waves and probes.
Yes I had that thought once too.. then alone one night (yeah good thoughts seem to come at night 
) I figured this out.
2 billion years ago, a race evolved into intelligent beings and started to space travel... they lasted for 20,000 years before they destroyed themselves (I say this because I do feel that every culture eventually causes it's own demise one way or another.. so I made that assumption - which assumption is how most theories generate so give me credit for that at least).
so they died out in 20,000 years.. another 16,000 and all their signals left the galaxy. so that's only 36,000 years. Now given the chances of evolution creating an intelligent and space-faring race are slim, I'd wager every 100,000 years another one comes along. still race #2 didn't know race #1 existed until they space - travel and find ruins and architecture, just like we find ancient civs here on earth only they did it on other planets.
so now the are the dominant 'galaxy' race.. rinse and repeat. My suggestion is that we are the "next in line" for this fate and when we go, another race will find our remains scattered across the stars.
but it IS... possible that two or more evolve at the same time but maybe they do so at other ends of the galaxy or at least far enough away so that radio waves never hit each other before one or the other 'dies' or goes 'extinct'.
I know I'm being over-simplistic in some of these assertations but all in all i feel they make a lot of sense.
) I figured this out.2 billion years ago, a race evolved into intelligent beings and started to space travel... they lasted for 20,000 years before they destroyed themselves (I say this because I do feel that every culture eventually causes it's own demise one way or another.. so I made that assumption - which assumption is how most theories generate so give me credit for that at least).
so they died out in 20,000 years.. another 16,000 and all their signals left the galaxy. so that's only 36,000 years. Now given the chances of evolution creating an intelligent and space-faring race are slim, I'd wager every 100,000 years another one comes along. still race #2 didn't know race #1 existed until they space - travel and find ruins and architecture, just like we find ancient civs here on earth only they did it on other planets.
so now the are the dominant 'galaxy' race.. rinse and repeat. My suggestion is that we are the "next in line" for this fate and when we go, another race will find our remains scattered across the stars.
but it IS... possible that two or more evolve at the same time but maybe they do so at other ends of the galaxy or at least far enough away so that radio waves never hit each other before one or the other 'dies' or goes 'extinct'.
I know I'm being over-simplistic in some of these assertations but all in all i feel they make a lot of sense.
20,000 years? That's how long you think we'll last? Then we should already be dead. Modern humans have been around for about 130,000 years.
ah yes.. I'm not arguing.. I'm saying about 20,000 years for strong space faring. For space probes and space signals and (maybe and hopefully) spacecraft and spacetravel)
Edit:
there could, in theroy, be any number of intelligent species that evolve but never get to the 'space race' before they go extinct. I feel not all life reaches the stars before vanishing. So this also will cut down on the number of species we will ever find. yes again , you have a valid point about how earth looks at night, but very strong telescopes won't see that, even from another system only a few hundred light years away (wow, ONLY a few HUNDRED light years?!? *laughs* mind boggling, that distance when you calculate it! ).
Edit:
there could, in theroy, be any number of intelligent species that evolve but never get to the 'space race' before they go extinct. I feel not all life reaches the stars before vanishing. So this also will cut down on the number of species we will ever find. yes again , you have a valid point about how earth looks at night, but very strong telescopes won't see that, even from another system only a few hundred light years away (wow, ONLY a few HUNDRED light years?!? *laughs* mind boggling, that distance when you calculate it! ).
All in all I think that ants are much more intelligent then humans.
They have developed farming, herding and great architecture and their social structure is better than ours.
Also, I have never heard of a corrupt ant, while for our politicians is normal.
They have developed farming, herding and great architecture and their social structure is better than ours.
Also, I have never heard of a corrupt ant, while for our politicians is normal.
And guys what do you say about circles in grain,they are really impressive...It's almost impossible for human to make it...
Take a look at this pictures,they are in Croatia,and page is on my language.
http://www.share-international.net/hrv/dod...govi_u_zitu.htm
Edit: Look this to:
http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/mul.../08/cropcircles
Take a look at this pictures,they are in Croatia,and page is on my language.
http://www.share-international.net/hrv/dod...govi_u_zitu.htm
Edit: Look this to:
http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/mul.../08/cropcircles
QUOTE(sarac @ Feb 28 2008, 03:33 AM)
And guys what do you say about circles in grain,they are really impressive...It's almost impossible for human to make it...
Take a look at this pictures,they are in Croatia,and page is on my language.
Take a look at this pictures,they are in Croatia,and page is on my language.
Impossible?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLR7k6NvcPc
These people manage just fine...
I just can't understand why everybody thinks that if there's UFOs landed on the crop fields, why their ship always make so symmetrical marks. Besides, why do they always land on crop fields? I'm sure that if there is technology allowing space traveling, for sure it can also land in anywhere on any kind of ground. Crop circles just don't make any sense to me. These are just fake.
Then, do I believe in UFOs? I've always approached this from practical view. You can think how big the whole space is. There's millions of galaxies and such, so the probability that there is life and life supporting planets like earth is bigger than if there is not. With our technology we can't reach our research exceedingly far from earth. That means there's many unknown galaxies just like ours, so there must be life both more and less intelligent.
There's also discussion about if intelligent extraterrestrial life has contacted us. As I said the space is big, so the probability of UFOs being near earth is highly unlikely to be true. Thus I don't believe there's ever been or will be any contact between us and "them", however, I don't say that is impossible.
Then, do I believe in UFOs? I've always approached this from practical view. You can think how big the whole space is. There's millions of galaxies and such, so the probability that there is life and life supporting planets like earth is bigger than if there is not. With our technology we can't reach our research exceedingly far from earth. That means there's many unknown galaxies just like ours, so there must be life both more and less intelligent.
There's also discussion about if intelligent extraterrestrial life has contacted us. As I said the space is big, so the probability of UFOs being near earth is highly unlikely to be true. Thus I don't believe there's ever been or will be any contact between us and "them", however, I don't say that is impossible.
QUOTE(decal_mirror @ Feb 28 2008, 05:58 AM)
I just can't understand why everybody thinks that if there's UFOs landed on the crop fields, why their ship always make so symmetrical marks. Besides, why do they always land on crop fields? I'm sure that if there is technology allowing space traveling, for sure it can also land in anywhere on any kind of ground. Crop circles just don't make any sense to me. These are just fake.
Then, do I believe in UFOs? I've always approached this from practical view. You can think how big the whole space is. There's millions of galaxies and such, so the probability that there is life and life supporting planets like earth is bigger than if there is not. With our technology we can't reach our research exceedingly far from earth. That means there's many unknown galaxies just like ours, so there must be life both more and less intelligent.
There's also discussion about if intelligent extraterrestrial life has contacted us. As I said the space is big, so the probability of UFOs being near earth is highly unlikely to be true. Thus I don't believe there's ever been or will be any contact between us and "them", however, I don't say that is impossible.
Then, do I believe in UFOs? I've always approached this from practical view. You can think how big the whole space is. There's millions of galaxies and such, so the probability that there is life and life supporting planets like earth is bigger than if there is not. With our technology we can't reach our research exceedingly far from earth. That means there's many unknown galaxies just like ours, so there must be life both more and less intelligent.
There's also discussion about if intelligent extraterrestrial life has contacted us. As I said the space is big, so the probability of UFOs being near earth is highly unlikely to be true. Thus I don't believe there's ever been or will be any contact between us and "them", however, I don't say that is impossible.
I agree decal, because there just is no clear evidence to support or even suggest that UFOs are landing (of all places) in Farmer Joe's corn fields. Of all the stories I've read and heard (and mind you, I've read and heard A LOT), not one has provided enough factual evidence that an extraterrestrial space craft are indeed choosing our planet to land on (which, as some of you have already pointed out, just doesn't make sense: why us? Why land here on Earth? Is there something so special, so profound about our planet?) Of course, it always makes for an entertaining read
Hell, I prefer watching movies about extraterrestrials landing on Earth than I do watching documentaries about some poor miserable sod's boring life
QUOTE(ninja_lord666 @ Feb 28 2008, 01:50 PM)
QUOTE(sarac @ Feb 28 2008, 03:33 AM)
And guys what do you say about circles in grain,they are really impressive...It's almost impossible for human to make it...
Take a look at this pictures,they are in Croatia,and page is on my language.
Take a look at this pictures,they are in Croatia,and page is on my language.
Impossible?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLR7k6NvcPc
These people manage just fine...
OK,humans can make them,but maybe there are only some made by us,there is always possibility that there are ships landing...
But as rob says,why we,why are we so special? ...who knows maybe we are so evolved that we got they interest...
--------------------------------------
I just remembered,once i saw on news,that we have sent,rocket or some kind of satellite to space and if there are extraterrestrials,we will know somewhere around in 2012,2013 year...
QUOTE(sarac @ Feb 28 2008, 10:02 PM)
I just remembered,once i saw on news,that we have sent,rocket or some kind of satellite to space and if there are extraterrestrials,we will know somewhere around in 2012,2013 year...
And you really believed that?! Haha, good one! ONE rocket and a FEW years and after that we're supposed to know if there's aliens if any? In all that vastness of space?
I think you're either mistaken about what you saw on the news or then these reporters are unbelievably stupid...
QUOTE(decal_mirror @ Feb 28 2008, 11:02 PM)
QUOTE(sarac @ Feb 28 2008, 10:02 PM)
I just remembered,once i saw on news,that we have sent,rocket or some kind of satellite to space and if there are extraterrestrials,we will know somewhere around in 2012,2013 year...
And you really believed that?! Haha, good one! ONE rocket and a FEW years and after that we're supposed to know if there's aliens if any? In all that vastness of space?
I think you're either mistaken about what you saw on the news or then these reporters are unbelievably stupid...
Actually,that news where few years back... ...you probably would ask,how could you remember...well i guess i have good memory,
...
QUOTE(sarac @ Feb 28 2008, 01:02 PM)
I just remembered,once i saw on news,that we have sent,rocket or some kind of satellite to space and if there are extraterrestrials,we will know somewhere around in 2012,2013 year...
Hmm... like decal pointed out, these is false claims, and either you misheard, or that news crew is composed of morons. If we did send something out into space, a probe or satellite say, you must realize that it would take decades to discover any sort of proof of extraterrestrial life.
QUOTE(rob_b @ Feb 28 2008, 04:20 PM)
QUOTE(sarac @ Feb 28 2008, 01:02 PM)
I just remembered,once i saw on news,that we have sent,rocket or some kind of satellite to space and if there are extraterrestrials,we will know somewhere around in 2012,2013 year...
Hmm... like decal pointed out, these is false claims, and either you misheard, or that news crew is composed of morons. If we did send something out into space, a probe or satellite say, you must realize that it would take decades to discover any sort of proof of extraterrestrial life.
It was the news crew. Definitely. Never trust a reporter.
Decades? I thought it would take longer than that.
Traveling at the speed that our space probes take, it would take thousands of years to get from here to the other side of the galaxy, and that's just a strait line. If it searched everywhere, it would take millions, possibly billions of years.
AH. That's what I thought, thanks Ninja! I don't currently believe that intelligent life exists outside of earth, for reasons others have already mentioned and other, personal beliefs I won't go into. I am open to the idea that it does, however.
Well i guess i misheard something (and at end my memory doesn't serve me well, )...
)...
QUOTE(ninja_lord666 @ Feb 28 2008, 10:28 PM)
Traveling at the speed that our space probes take, it would take thousands of years to get from here to the other side of the galaxy, and that's just a strait line. If it searched everywhere, it would take millions, possibly billions of years.
I was unaware that we had faster-than-light propulsion. Or perhaps you miscalculated by a few orders of magnitude?
QUOTE(Abramul @ Feb 28 2008, 05:04 PM)
QUOTE(ninja_lord666 @ Feb 28 2008, 10:28 PM)
Traveling at the speed that our space probes take, it would take thousands of years to get from here to the other side of the galaxy, and that's just a strait line. If it searched everywhere, it would take millions, possibly billions of years.
I was unaware that we had faster-than-light propulsion. Or perhaps you miscalculated by a few orders of magnitude?
To be honest, I just made up random numbers...
Yes, we're alone amidst a nearly endless expanse of other stars, and planets. Arguably, we're also suicidal, intent on either destroying the only planet we can live on right now, or trying to claim a small portion of it for whatever group we happen to be a part of. All this belief in other intelligent life is really there to keep us from realizing our own extreme stupidity... Afterall, if we were the only form of life in the universe, it'd be a pretty sick joke if we just ended dying off because of that stupidity.
On the flip side, people want to deny the possible existance of other life because they want to believe that the human race is some special thing which was created in the image of whatever diety, and will be protected by said diety. But they still insist on bringing conflict to anyone who does not share their beliefs.
If we are the only form of intelligent life in the universe, someone up there has obviously made a huge mistake.
On the flip side, people want to deny the possible existance of other life because they want to believe that the human race is some special thing which was created in the image of whatever diety, and will be protected by said diety. But they still insist on bringing conflict to anyone who does not share their beliefs.
If we are the only form of intelligent life in the universe, someone up there has obviously made a huge mistake.
QUOTE(Vagrant0 @ Feb 29 2008, 03:15 AM)
So witch was your opinion?
QUOTE
Yes, we're alone amidst a nearly endless expanse of other stars, and planets. Arguably, we're also suicidal, intent on either destroying the only planet we can live on right now, or trying to claim a small portion of it for whatever group we happen to be a part of. All this belief in other intelligent life is really there to keep us from realizing our own extreme stupidity... Afterall, if we were the only form of life in the universe, it'd be a pretty sick joke if we just ended dying off because of that stupidity.
I don't believe that we don't realize what we're doing here. I think we realize that well but this is all about business: we only care about our own wealth and think that f*** that if our kids live in ruined world. We're already dead that so it's not our problem.
The believing to intelligent aliens and trying to learn if they exist is fascinating itself. There is no need for other reasons but the interest to research outer space.
QUOTE(decal_mirror @ Feb 28 2008, 07:32 PM)
QUOTE(Vagrant0 @ Feb 29 2008, 03:15 AM)
So witch was your opinion?
I believe he was being sarcastic.
I think most people believe that there is something or someone out there, but, I'd agree with ninja that the probability of beings likened to us is fairly low. Even lower still would be the chance that a truly intelligent or at least extremely inventive race would travel hundreds, thousands or millions of light years just to pay us a visit. I don't hold truck with crop circles as being evidence of us being visited. Nor, are the Nazca lines a runway or indicative that our ancestors had contact with extraterrestrials.
It's been proven several times that people created many of the crop circles, and most likely all of them. And, the monuments our ancestors left behind, which can only be fully seen from the sky are just messages to their long dead gods to pay homage.
I truly believe there is life scattered in many many forms throughout the universe. If you take it from a purely evolutionary point of view and the vast diversity of life on our own world in every imaginable habitat, how can life NOT exist elsewhere?
The ego of man is truly incredible, if you think about it. Regardless of each individuals' personal beliefs, as a whole, we consider ourselves to be either above all other life as we know it, or are important enough to attract the attention of higher life forms.
I liked the reference to ants, as well. I don't believe they would be 'more' intelligent, but on par with us. There are certain species which sole purpose is to wage war on other species and to enslave them, oddly reminiscent of our own behavior from the past and even today.
It's been proven several times that people created many of the crop circles, and most likely all of them. And, the monuments our ancestors left behind, which can only be fully seen from the sky are just messages to their long dead gods to pay homage.
I truly believe there is life scattered in many many forms throughout the universe. If you take it from a purely evolutionary point of view and the vast diversity of life on our own world in every imaginable habitat, how can life NOT exist elsewhere?
The ego of man is truly incredible, if you think about it. Regardless of each individuals' personal beliefs, as a whole, we consider ourselves to be either above all other life as we know it, or are important enough to attract the attention of higher life forms.
I liked the reference to ants, as well. I don't believe they would be 'more' intelligent, but on par with us. There are certain species which sole purpose is to wage war on other species and to enslave them, oddly reminiscent of our own behavior from the past and even today.
I'd be happy just to find intelligent life in Congress.
But what about stupid life in the universe? Are we so baised that we won't accept stupid life? I bet there's a lot of stupid life out there and if we wouldn't be so judgemental we'd settle for that.
-Jumonji
But what about stupid life in the universe? Are we so baised that we won't accept stupid life? I bet there's a lot of stupid life out there and if we wouldn't be so judgemental we'd settle for that.
-Jumonji
QUOTE(Eiden @ Feb 29 2008, 09:09 AM)
I think most people believe that there is something or someone out there, but, I'd agree with ninja that the probability of beings likened to us is fairly low.
The chance is even lower if one believes the currently accepted theory for the creation of the moon. According to that theory, there was another planet in between Earth and Mars called Orpheus. Orpheus was about half the size of Earth and had an orbit very near Earth's orbit. Eventually, Orpheus hit Earth which formed the moon. I won't go into detail, but the hit completely destroyed Earth as it was, reconfigured the atmosphere (adding O2), and forming the moon. If this never happened, Earth would be very different. What are the chances of something like this happening again somewhere else?
QUOTE
I liked the reference to ants, as well. I don't believe they would be 'more' intelligent, but on par with us. There are certain species which sole purpose is to wage war on other species and to enslave them, oddly reminiscent of our own behavior from the past and even today.
You also can't forget octopuses. They are quite intelligent as well. I'll bet, if Orpheus never hit us, Earth would be controlled by some form of octopus.
QUOTE(Jumonji @ Feb 29 2008, 01:30 PM)
I'd be happy just to find intelligent life in Congress.
NICE!
QUOTE(ninja_lord666 @ Feb 29 2008, 03:13 AM)
QUOTE(decal_mirror @ Feb 28 2008, 07:32 PM)
QUOTE(Vagrant0 @ Feb 29 2008, 03:15 AM)
So witch was your opinion?
I believe he was being sarcastic.
Not sarcastic. I was merely stating that if we are the only form of intelligent life in the universe, someone made a mistake. In truth, it doesn't matter, if we are, we'll just continue killing eachother over petty disputes, if we aren't, we'll still kill eachother over petty disputes, but will also be killing aliens since they are different. Although it would be fun to see how those excessively religious types would respond to aliens.
At any rate, the discussion is pointless. Even if we did find evidence, we probably wouldn't be able to act on any of it, and there would certainly be people who would be trying hard to disprove it, or to foil any attempts to act on it. Our current society is just too damn stupid to be able to handle it either way. And we aren't particularly on a road where that is close to being changed. Heck, aliens enslaving humanity might just be the best possible outcome if you considder the long term implications. Although even that won't happen, humans just aren't suited for slave labor, we're too stubborn, rather weak, not very bright, and can't survive in harsh conditions for long. We don't even taste good. It's no suprise why aliens havn't bothered with humanity. We are no good to them, and we've screwed our planet over so much that our resources probably aren't even worth taking any more.
QUOTE(Vagrant0 @ Mar 1 2008, 12:23 AM)
Vagrant..
You're speaking like every intelligent species uses same resources as we do. I'm not saying they don't but I think that the physical phenomenons and basic elements we see here in earth are only a few percents from them all. Just, take a look to black holes. They are only one prove how less we know about physics. I mean that there's so much we don't know but the aliens may know.
Besides, from your posts I can see that you imagine aliens to be just like in movies, their behavior, physical and social structure is very near to human. So, let me quote you: "that's narrow minded.."
QUOTE(Vagrant0 @ Feb 29 2008, 03:23 PM)
QUOTE(ninja_lord666 @ Feb 29 2008, 03:13 AM)
QUOTE(decal_mirror @ Feb 28 2008, 07:32 PM)
QUOTE(Vagrant0 @ Feb 29 2008, 03:15 AM)
So witch was your opinion?
I believe he was being sarcastic.
Not sarcastic. I was merely stating that if we are the only form of intelligent life in the universe, someone made a mistake. In truth, it doesn't matter, if we are, we'll just continue killing eachother over petty disputes, if we aren't, we'll still kill eachother over petty disputes, but will also be killing aliens since they are different. Although it would be fun to see how those excessively religious types would respond to aliens.
Yeah - it's called "xenophobia".
QUOTE
At any rate, the discussion is pointless. Even if we did find evidence, we probably wouldn't be able to act on any of it, and there would certainly be people who would be trying hard to disprove it, or to foil any attempts to act on it. Our current society is just too damn stupid to be able to handle it either way. And we aren't particularly on a road where that is close to being changed. Heck, aliens enslaving humanity might just be the best possible outcome if you considder the long term implications. Although even that won't happen, humans just aren't suited for slave labor, we're too stubborn, rather weak, not very bright, and can't survive in harsh conditions for long. We don't even taste good. It's no suprise why aliens havn't bothered with humanity. We are no good to them, and we've screwed our planet over so much that our resources probably aren't even worth taking any more.
Are you then saying you're a misanthropist?
QUOTE(rob_b @ Mar 1 2008, 01:41 AM)
Are you then saying you're a misanthropist?
Nah, I'm just being exceptionally cynical with this thread as it is pretty much an all or nothing situation where nobody currently has any real, concrete, scientifically testable evidence one way or the other. Therefore it serves everyone better to point out that humanity may not be around long enough to find out, and that humnanity is quite possibly too flawed at this point in time for any extraterrestrial life to really want to make the journey. A misanthropist would have said that this is how it will always be, I am not making those claims. We can change for the better, we just apparently need a reason bigger than our own selfishness.
It's not narrow minded, it's simply refusing to accept this ideliogic view that many people have about this subject. As for aliens having to appear humanoid, I never said such a thing, stop putting words in my mouth. As far as resources go, while they may have slightly different uses for them, due to the physical/chemical properties of those resources, it is more likely that they will have the same general uses no matter what. If common resources could be used in very different ways, they probably would already have been.
Somehow I don't think there's intelligent life near us, and even if there was, nothing portrayed in movies and whatnot did or will actually happen. What alien life form, if intelligent, is going to ride into a whole new planet, completely naked (as most movies portray) and start killing us all? Think of it this way; if we flew to another planet with life, how would we act? We'd come in wearing space suits and make peaceful contact with the aliens, among lots of other stuff, so why wouldn't aliens do the same? The media is stupid in a lot of ways.
However, I believe that there is life in the universe other than us, whether it be intelligent or dumb. Even if there wasn't any intelligent life, chances are there'd be bacterial populations, and maybe even wildlife type creatures (like our deer and raccoons and fish). I think that if there is life, there's no proof yet, and definitely not any proof of intelligent life or aliens visiting Earth.
However, I believe that there is life in the universe other than us, whether it be intelligent or dumb. Even if there wasn't any intelligent life, chances are there'd be bacterial populations, and maybe even wildlife type creatures (like our deer and raccoons and fish). I think that if there is life, there's no proof yet, and definitely not any proof of intelligent life or aliens visiting Earth.
QUOTE(Vagrant0 @ Mar 1 2008, 09:47 PM)
..stop putting words in my mouth.
Sorry, I didn't. Or at least I wasn't trying to. In the way you described your points I just saw a stereotypical picture of an alien. Thinking aliens to be like that can be very limiting in the subject itself: is tere life and is it intelligent. Being intelligent is not the only criteria to have successful history of the entire race. Take a shark for example. They have lived millions of years already yet they are still almost unchanged from what they've been in past.
A starfaring race may reasonably be assumed to be intelligent. Whether or not said race would consider humans intelligent, or care if they were, is a different question.
I should note that by 'starfaring', I mean capable of building starships, rather than merely being capable of interstellar travel.
I should note that by 'starfaring', I mean capable of building starships, rather than merely being capable of interstellar travel.
QUOTE(Abramul @ Mar 2 2008, 12:12 AM)
A starfaring race may reasonably be assumed to be intelligent. Whether or not said race would consider humans intelligent, or care if they were, is a different question.
I should note that by 'starfaring', I mean capable of building starships, rather than merely being capable of interstellar travel.
I should note that by 'starfaring', I mean capable of building starships, rather than merely being capable of interstellar travel.
Why exclude a race which has become capable of using starship technology, but not the ability to create them themselves? A race using borrowed, discovered, or stolen tech would be just as likely as one having able to develop that tech themselves. There's also symbiotic life forms (Goa'uld, atleast conceptually) , or the very unlikely case of a species which can survive in space (crystaline entity, or something completely different), or a race being able to exploit such a species (living ship). Wouldn't be better to just leave it to oragnisims which are capable of logic, or life which is of significant complexity?
*Edit* Then there's the case of a race which is capable of trancendental relocation (K-pac, or whatever), should we discriminate against them since they don't need ships?
My point was more that a lifeform that is capable of designing and building starships may be assumed to be intelligent, but forms that use designs provided by others, or that are intrinsically capable of interstellar travel, would have to be evaluated on an individual basis. Which, given that you'd need to establish communication in order to know how they attained their starship design, isn't very useful.
As an example, a self replicating spacecraft could be considered to be alive, and is capable of building more spacecraft, but whether or not it's intelligent depends on its programming.
And yes, I know I didn't mention designing in my previous post.
As an example, a self replicating spacecraft could be considered to be alive, and is capable of building more spacecraft, but whether or not it's intelligent depends on its programming.
And yes, I know I didn't mention designing in my previous post.
As I mentioned before in this thread, why would any one extraterrestrial species, intelligent of building and designing spacecraft capable of travelling light years, to find us? Why us? We're nothing special. The only circumstance under which I'd ever see an extraterrestrial species coming into contact with us is if they happened upon our planet by accident, as Abramul said, though star-faring.
ALL Hollywood movies about extraterrestrials have one thing in common - a misrepresentation of how an extraterrestrial species would behave on our planet. How would they know if they can't breath the air we breath, or even if they wouldn't act violently toward us. While these kinds of movies are always entertaining for me, it is still only fiction.
ALL Hollywood movies about extraterrestrials have one thing in common - a misrepresentation of how an extraterrestrial species would behave on our planet. How would they know if they can't breath the air we breath, or even if they wouldn't act violently toward us. While these kinds of movies are always entertaining for me, it is still only fiction.
I loved alien movies since I was a little girl, but I agree with rob, alien movies are simply a genre and don't necessarily show what WILL happen if aliens come across our planet. Like I said before, most Hollywood movies show aliens as naked grey guys with big heads, wearing no space suit whatsoever and somehow managing to live in our environment, even though that defies the laws of biology, because they could get sick from our diseases, even if oxygen/hydrogen/etc air doesn't hurt them. The whole hollywood alien ideas are messed up.
Here's a hypothetical alien creature I've made up, for a drawing: nebula blimp. Though I'm not a biologist I'll try to explain the characteristics of this creature from what I imagine. This creature is shaped like a big ball with holes. Their ball form with holes allows them to live in the vacuum of space without problem. They "breath" in gases supplied by the nebula through their holes and that's their only energy source. They are hollow, and the membrane between inside and out is thin to allow the gases to reach all cells evenly without a circulatory system (blood). Because they only need gases to survive, they don't need water or have prey. They move by blowing waste gases out of these holes. They don't have brains or "guts", just skin cells, muscles cells, and nervous tissue evenly distributed on their body, so accidental amputation won't be fatal, because they regenerate lost parts. In fact if you cut one in half, both halves will create regenerate lost parts, so amputation is their method of asexual reproduction. You can kill one by blowing it up, or so that all cells would be destroyed somehow. They are blueish in color and semi-transparent. They are harmless, and also do not fear others because they have no natural enemies, only avoid possible explosion by detecting chemical compounds in the area.
Anyone else have any alien ideas?
Here's a hypothetical alien creature I've made up, for a drawing: nebula blimp. Though I'm not a biologist I'll try to explain the characteristics of this creature from what I imagine. This creature is shaped like a big ball with holes. Their ball form with holes allows them to live in the vacuum of space without problem. They "breath" in gases supplied by the nebula through their holes and that's their only energy source. They are hollow, and the membrane between inside and out is thin to allow the gases to reach all cells evenly without a circulatory system (blood). Because they only need gases to survive, they don't need water or have prey. They move by blowing waste gases out of these holes. They don't have brains or "guts", just skin cells, muscles cells, and nervous tissue evenly distributed on their body, so accidental amputation won't be fatal, because they regenerate lost parts. In fact if you cut one in half, both halves will create regenerate lost parts, so amputation is their method of asexual reproduction. You can kill one by blowing it up, or so that all cells would be destroyed somehow. They are blueish in color and semi-transparent. They are harmless, and also do not fear others because they have no natural enemies, only avoid possible explosion by detecting chemical compounds in the area.
Anyone else have any alien ideas?
If you have checked videos i putted in my first post you could see in one of them that on some holy pictures in the background you can see some guy pointing to some object in the sky which,as they say is UFO...
What that mean,that humans knew of UFO-s before? ...or?
EDIT: I have corrected that ninja! , .
What that mean,that humans knew of UFO-s before? ...or?
EDIT: I have corrected that ninja! ,
.
'newed' 
...Grammar has hit a new low...
The thing about cave paintings is that they are so generalised and simple that they could mean almost anything. The only reason they look like someone pointing to a spaceship is because the UFO people want them to. For all we know, that could be the first documented case of hemorrhoids.
...Grammar has hit a new low...The thing about cave paintings is that they are so generalised and simple that they could mean almost anything. The only reason they look like someone pointing to a spaceship is because the UFO people want them to. For all we know, that could be the first documented case of hemorrhoids.
It seems people forgot what UFO actually means. And unidentified Flying object could be anything, so long as its unidentified. A bird flying in a strange pattern could be a UFO, if people don't see that its a bird. A Frisbee thrown in the wrong way could be a UFO. A spy plane on radar could be a UFO, because the radar operators can't tell what it is. I could be a UFO if I flew out of a plane without a parachute, and someone a mile away couldn't tell that it was a falling woman.
QUOTE(kungfubellydancer @ Mar 3 2008, 07:41 PM)
I could be a UFO if I flew out of a plane without a parachute, and someone a mile away couldn't tell that it was a falling woman.
That wouldn't be very healthy for the baby...
Yes, people have completely forgotten the UFO is an acronym and not a word, like RADAR or LASER.
QUOTE(ninja_lord666 @ Mar 4 2008, 01:54 AM)
QUOTE(kungfubellydancer @ Mar 3 2008, 07:41 PM)
I could be a UFO if I flew out of a plane without a parachute, and someone a mile away couldn't tell that it was a falling woman.
That wouldn't be very healthy for the baby...
Yes, people have completely forgotten the UFO is an acronym and not a word, like RADAR or LASER.
I believe the point being made is that once it is defined as a spaceship, airplane, or whatever it ceases to be a UFO by definition of the term. Meaning that UFO is only applicable in cases where you are unable to determine clearly what the flying object is, and your ability to determine what the object is does not necessarily have any implications other than someone being unable to determine what was flying.
Is there life out there? Almost certainly, from a statistical point of view. New extra-solar planets are being discovered at a faster and faster rate, since the people looking know what to look for now (wobbles in stars, etcetera). That will improve over the next decades, to the point that we will likely be able to detect earth-like, and smaller, bodies in orbit. Given the sheer scale of the universe, it is almost certain that life has developed elsewhere. Not all of it will be 'intelligent' mind you. We have no real way of knowing the odds of life, or intelligence, developing, as a single example isnt enough to work on.
What amuses me is the assumption that if aliens visit they would be super intelligent - how many people driving cars would be remotely capable of building, far less designing, one?
What also interests me is the concept of intelligence on different levels. When it comes down to it, our intelligence consists of the interactions between the different parts of our brain and the surroundings. In our case this happens on the scale of electrons, which perform the processes that we call intelligence. Could it be that those same processes could happen in different mediums, on different scales? Could you describe an ant colony as a single intelligent entity, with ants taking the place of the electrons in our minds? Could things work on even larger scales, the vast interactions between the stars and galaxies over billions of years? You can view our intelligence as, ultimately, physical interactions. And even if there were other forms of intellince, would we be able to detect them, or even know that they are possible? You can even view societies as indivual entities, interacting in various ways.
Well, I find it intersing anyway...
What amuses me is the assumption that if aliens visit they would be super intelligent - how many people driving cars would be remotely capable of building, far less designing, one?
What also interests me is the concept of intelligence on different levels. When it comes down to it, our intelligence consists of the interactions between the different parts of our brain and the surroundings. In our case this happens on the scale of electrons, which perform the processes that we call intelligence. Could it be that those same processes could happen in different mediums, on different scales? Could you describe an ant colony as a single intelligent entity, with ants taking the place of the electrons in our minds? Could things work on even larger scales, the vast interactions between the stars and galaxies over billions of years? You can view our intelligence as, ultimately, physical interactions. And even if there were other forms of intellince, would we be able to detect them, or even know that they are possible? You can even view societies as indivual entities, interacting in various ways.
Well, I find it intersing anyway...
Like I had said before on this matter, I do believe, without a shred of doubt, that life most certainly exists outside of our solar system. However, the ideas movie-makers get for their alien/sci-fi flicks are most certainly fictious, but as I also said, it makes for far better entertainment value to the movie-goer 
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