Sadly today I have been requested by Bethesda Softworks to pull the mod "Morroblivion" from the site as it breaches the EULA for Oblivion. Matt Grandstaff explained the situation:



The situation is unfortunate, as Morroblivion was a great tool I'm sure made with the best of intentions, but the rights to this content belong to Bethesda Softworks and they are perfectly within their rights to make such requests. While I'm pretty liberal when it comes to the content allowed on the site (nudity, violence, etc. etc.) when it comes to copyrights and content ownership I have to draw the line.

Hopefully you can all appreciate the situation. If you believe a file you're looking at is in breach of copyright or takes content from Morrowind, or any other game, please use the "Report this file" feature to inform the staff on the site so it does not potentially affect myself and the site itself.

Thank you.

Update
Before locking a topic on the official forums about Morroblivion, moderator Dogsbody has provided further clarification on the matter:



It is evident many users are upset by the decision and many of us, myself included, were wondering why exactly this had to be done. Hopefully this helps patch things up. I stand by the comment that providing this information from the offset, rather than it being weeded out of different people gradually, can only bring good things. Communication communication communication.

Breach of EULA or not, the guys at Bethesda responsible for this are fools.

Here a guy has created a program, free of charge, that actually gets people to go out and buy, not just one, but two of their games. In response, they squash that program from the face of TESNexus.

That is frankly absurd, and clear abuse of intellectual property law. Bethesda lawyers need to go back to school.

no! they cant do this what about CNME?

What is CNME?

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14929

It depends of Morroblivion, so it's a dead mod ... it adds just a script which teleport you to Morrowind, it's legal but useless.

Sad day ...

You of course are absolutely right!
The only thing that this could do is give people a reason to buy more of their product, so what do they do?
Take that reason away.
Textbook example of cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Sure they have the legal right to refuse but it makes no business sense.

I find myself wondering when exactly this corporate mentality entered Bethesda Softworks.

As long as the Morrowind content isn't being put up for download, does it really have anything to do with them? :/
My opinion of Bethesda would have lowered greatly after reading this, if wasn't already as low as it can go.

It's always been there, trust me.

The folks at Bethesda aren't stupid and I'm sure they have a valid reason past "because we can" for making such a decision. Trying to look at the situation from a neutral stand point, and from a limited legal knowledge, I know that copyrights, trademarks, intellectual property etc. can be reduced or voided if owners don't attempt to protect it. Morrowind and Oblivion are seperate entities each with their own copyrights; if Bethesda know-of and allow users to put Morrowind content in the Oblivion game then it's possible they could be advocating it's ok to put content from games they don't own into Oblivion, too. Or, simpler, putting Morrowind content into the Oblivion game is a breach of the EULA and, if they know about it and don't do something about it it voids the EULA or their copyright.

As I said, limited knowledge, but I like to think the guys at Bethesda know what they're doing, even if it's in their own interests over our interests most of the time. I know the feeling

No that’s cannot be so beautiful Idea going to Graveyard
so what will be the second step of Bethesda lawyers
destroying of Nifscope because moder can alternate game files {:'((((

Ëèøü ïðîêëÿòàÿ àë÷íîñòü äâèæåò äèðåêòîðàòîì Bethesda
äà ïóñòü îíè ïîäàâÿòüñÿ äåíüãàìè áóðæóèíû ïðîêëÿòûå
Ðóññêèå íå Ñäàþòüñÿ !

The advection point is a good one and makes sense.
I just tried to post a topic on this & got closed quickly.
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=805744

Strange and stupid idea to surpress Morroblivion. I don't know USA laws well (and don't care about them at all) but as far as I can understand - Morroblivion creators have just to modify the landscapes etc quite a bit and to say: "we created this by own hands" - and no lawyers should be able to press them ant further.

This of course can happen only if Morrobliv authors shouldn't say "F..k you in your f..ing mouth, sick b..ches/Eby ya vas v rot, syki dolbanye" and abandon their project... what is much possible, to my great sadness.

Morroblivion was a direct port utility of many Morrowind assets into Oblivion. It wasn't a modification as much as it was a Morrowind TC facilitator of sorts.

To prohibit morroblivion by does cause to take of another games to put on oblivion have this rate/rhythm all the mods which take again weapons armours and others of other games they will do what then???????

Trademark, indeed, must be "defended." There is no such restriction/policy for copyright or other forms of intellectual property.

However, that is irrelevant, as there is simply no trademark violation here. The purpose of trademark is to eliminate or reduce the misleading of customers. There is no legal argument that an obviously third-party utility which requires copies of the two "intellectual properties" would result in consumers believing it is sanctioned by Bethesda, just as all mods are obviously not trademark violations.

In terms of copyright, there is again, no real violation, as the "new" content is neither being distributed nor made available.

The legal enforceability of EULAs is not very established, and in all likelihood, this would be laughed out of court. Unfortunately, Bethesda assumes (correctly) that something like this will never actually reach a court, so they simply (ab)use their "rights" to bully others.

Odd, my understanding was that if a mod had the content of another game packed then it was illegal and not if you had to add it your self.

[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Bethesda Softworks, LLC]

hmmm....This could mean bad news for many other mods.
If you make something from scratch that was from Morrowind to use in Oblivion.
Isn't the Ordinators from MW? Is that also a breach by their complaint?
Is that going to be also shutdown?
Are they now going to take a closer look at the mods we have been making?

Can they just take a whim and start shutting down any mod and use that excuse??

Does anyone have a copy of the EULA for morrowind? I would like to see it.

PS....I was going to go by Morrowind this weekend...no real need to now.

While you guys are discussing the legality of it (EULA ) I’m talking about the poor business aspect of the whole thing & how it seems to be just plain dumb.

DarkOne’s point of advection is the only logical reason I can think for Bethesda putting a halt to a potential profit.
Maybe they fear if they turn a blind eye somehow down the line someone may be able to site the example & use it to support their case (very unlikely the opposition would have to prove Bethesda knew about it & gave preference to one party over another).

Anyway this is what I sent / got back from Gstaff:


hoots,

Thanks for the feedback. I understand that folks were interesting in this project, but legally, it's not something we can support....sorry.[/QUOTE]
Who is asking Bethesda to support it? That would be ridiculous; they don’t support any user mods as far as I know & should never be expected to.
All users want is not to have it banned, I legally paid for Morrowind & the expansions, I’m not stealing anything.
The only thing this mod may encourage is for people that don’t have Morrowind go out and buy it to run this new mod. What’s wrong with Bethesda making more money?

Sorry hoots7, the policy on this is probably not going to change. The point is that we don't allow for folks to take modded content from one game and put it in another. It still breaks the EULA -- even if they're both games developed by Bethesda.

Thanks for your time Gstaff, the heart of the issue for me is not really if it breaks the EULA or not, OK say it does.
My contention is that it’s simply not good business to enforce this. I don’t think there is any law on the books telling Bethesda they must enforce it but they chose to & it has not only saddened Elder Scrolls loving fans (this could have breathed a whole new life into Oblivion, the feedback was very positive) but sacrificed potential profits for the company.
BTW, I’m an (edited) year old gamer who bought Oblivion for its modding capabilities & then later bought Morrowind.

Please pass this on, just because you can do a thing doesn’t mean that you should.

It seems like Bethesda is really screwing themselves over. Especially since companies seem to enforce their EULAs at whim Bethesda ran no risk from allowing Morroblivion to exist. In fact, the program could well have encouraged people to buy Morrowind when they hadn't considered it before. It seems rather silly to me, because the EULA can easily be modified with a patch allowing resources to be shared between Morrowind and Oblivion but not distributed illegally.
If they don't like this, where are they going to stop? Maybe they'll decide to shut down the mod projects that are working on other parts of Tamriel next.

EDIT: Fixed a sentence fragment.

lol... I hope Bethesda reads that.
& YES Mathias Jerick it’s really disturbing the stand they are taking.

I figured it out....they are mad they didn't think of making it first....
All that money they would had made...selling the converter and morrowind games...



Yea hoots7- I would had been VERY mad if I had bought it and they shut down MO afterwords.
Because I have no want to look at the graphics of MW after playing oblivion.

Or worse yet maybe they are going to steal the idea, who’s to stop them.
(WoW, this isn’t like me, I’m really getting worked up).
Have a kudo batlham!

Edited:
This kind of thing that is not really good for anyone, Bethesda included just makes me mad.
I understand companies have to make money, that’s what they do & if there is some reason like advection than OK come right out with it. But I just don’t think so in this case, I think it was just a hasty decision on their part that hurts everybody.

Really they can't now....they would be violating copy right laws themselves. They would have to pay the writer of MO first.

Oh, hoots, I certainly agree that it is a horrible business decision. This is what happens when you let lawyers run the company instead of businessmen.

Good talking to you guys, I got to go hack up some trolls.

Just don't start hacking at your wrists with a scalpel, Hoots

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15112

What I was working on, already. Guess it has little use to anyone who didn't already get Morroblivion, but if it was completed, it would be a defense against the claim that Morroblivion uses Morrowind meshes.

EDIT: Will Morroblivion be taken off the files of the month list now and have the votes for it refunded to the voters, then?


Wow, this makes the loss of Morroblivion even more of a shame, the mod looks great. Its terrible it won't see completion.

I think it is a pathetic decision from Beth. How do they expect to loose money on this? Morrowind is ancient. The only thing I can imagine is they are planning another expansion which features the Morrowind landmass or something similar; at least they feel threatened somehow or it's just plain lawyery nagging. So much for my illusion of Beth supporting the modding community. :-/

I can only imagine that Beth made this decision because they don't understand what Morroblivion is. It sounds to me as if they think Morroblivion is *redistributing* Morrowind content, when it is only a program for converting Morrowind data that someone already has (because they have Morrowind installed) into content that Oblivion can load.

Stupid, stupid decision. Bethesda, I know you have to be quick to deal with infringements, but do your research better, okay?

They know full well what the utility does but have still decided it is against their EULA.

basically what they're saying is "You can't Import morrowind stuff Into Oblivion." That's not stopping us. i know Two teams of modders (not saying their names for fear of them Pulling this crap again) that are Working on recreating the morrowind Enviroment With everything Being remade FROM SCRATCH (although It'll obviously take longer to complete Because of it). And unless they like looking like Hypocrites they can't do anything about it Because they've already astablished that they can ONLY do this if it's being imported From the original game. And the thing is Not only Are they not able to shut down these projects Because of the reasons above But They're loosing money because The Hand-made Projects Don't need Morrowind.


Personally I think that they Had no clue that you needed to buy BOTH games in order to use this. If they did I don't think they'd be whining. I Also think it's clear to everyone Accept for bethesda that this was A bad Decision. Not only Did they screw themselves over Bussiness wise But they also pissed off the people that are buying their Freakin' Games! Way to go, Bethesda! I got on just a wee bit ago to see if I can find An Alternative To CM Partners since It Keeps Crashing my game. (I'd Accept Any Suggestions on Companion Mods, Btw ) And THIS... Act of Retardation on bethesda's Side Is the 1st thing I see!! Needless to say, I'm pissed off now! my GOD you don't know how hard It is to keep yourself from swearing when you're this pissed!


~Zenchii

Just as an FYI Morrowind material is copyrighted, so any person/team publically releasing a mod that directly replicated the Morrowind environment, story, quests, NPCs, look, etc. would be infringing that copyright, irrespective of whether the user owns Morrowind or not. When you buy computer games you buy the right to play the game as the developer intends, which is often described in a EULA or legal blurb somewhere on or in the product. You are not buying the rights to use the content of the software as you see fit.

Bethesda obviously still owns the rights to all their work and can legally request any files be pulled from the site that infringes on these rights. They know what Morroblivion did, what it was, and that users needed Morrowind in order for the utility to work. They inquired with their legal department about the utility and decided it best to ask the file be pulled.

Now I think some cool water could easily be thrown over the situation with a simple explanation of how that decision was reached; I know I'm interested and I'm sure many of the mature minds here would come to understand why this action has been taken if only there were a proper explanation of why.

I can't see it happening though, I'm pretty sure they don't care enough about the issue to give it a proper seeing to. I'd be happy if they could prove me wrong and restore a little faith in their PR.

I can understand why this was done but I'm a little disappointed because today I finally decided to try out the mod but instead, I found this update.

Hey! Its still available on Planet Elder Scrolls!

No jokes
I was actually gonna go buy the PC version of morrowind (I had the xbox version before) just for this mod

well, I mean it's obviously still on other sites....but i'm just pointing it out, I don't see why they would pull this mod off
I mean does anyone see how it negatively effects bethesda?!?
It in fact, ENCOURAGES the purchase of a second Bethesda software....way to f*ck up bethesda.....

I agree. there Has to be some sort of exlanation Behind the Decision. However, I also unfortunately agree that they don't care enough to give the people that Use their hard earned cash To buy their games a said Explanation. I'm feeling REAL proud to be A bethesda Customer right about now.

It is a shame that this had to happen. But unfortunately this is what happens when a business cares more about there content than there customers. For example Morrowind GOTY can still be bought at walmart in there bargain software section. This single mod could have picked up sells of one there products that had been all but discontinued. But unfortunately this had to happen. Bethesda can still prove me wrong though, they can announce that they are gonna make a true port of Morrowind in Oblivion as a expansion or a standalone game. I wont hold my breath though. Deep down I expect they will more and more regulate what mods they authorize claiming copyright or EULA violations. I suspect the reason for this is they will try to keep a tight grasp on "The Elder Scrolls" franchise until there new franchise "Fallout" has begun to lose its luster. Probably in 2-3 years. At that point they will pick up "The elder Scrolls" franchise once again and use the standard business practice of making something old new again. Business 101 in a nutshell.

To PES!!
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View...etail&id=30
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View...etail&id=33

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View...etail&id=30

that didn't work...got a 403 error when trying to download the files.
While I was able to download the other link

This is complete utter bulls**t I'm hearing. I own both Morrowind and Oblivion, and I converted the whole esm to Oblivion format. This doesn't make any sense. How is it illegal if you're only getting the esm converter? If you own both Morrowind and Oblivion, you could convert it. The mod didn't include Morrowind's files, but it DID contain the esm converter. Now all of a sudden, Bethesda is claiming the whole mod's illegal. Well, that's kind of dissapointing, but luckily I still have the mod before they started to shut this down. However, I'm not releasing it neither without author's permission or even risking my neck in court. So, I'm afraid I cannot share the mod with yas, just to avoid copyright infringement. I guess the author should've read Morrowind's EULA, but I guess he didn't. This is going in my news selection in U.S.F. forums. Thanks Dark0ne, for sharing this with us. A sad day indeed.......

Perhaps TESV will allow access to all of Tamriel. I'd buy it. Would have been great to play through the Morrowind campaign and questlines with Oblivion's (IMO) improved gameplay. Oh well.

I WAS going to buy GOTY (and I already have the original 3 separate disks version) to allow me to use this mod, but *not now*. Instant loss of revenue, for Bethesda. Instant Karma.

It is *mods* which make Oblivion worth it, and restricting these for nonsensical, though legal, reasons reduces the game's value a hundredfold.

Oblivion itself, outside of what can be added to it, is quite uninspiring and "vanilla" in feel; MW was much more atmospheric thus I, and many others it seems, looked forward to mods supporting a version of MW in Oblivion's engine. But now Bethesda strikes at the very source of it's livelihood; it's customers, for who else mods than those who have bought the game?

Bethesda take notice! Too much tightening of the legal reins tends to result in the exact opposite effect than was intended. It is a very bad idea to make one's loyal customers into one's opponents. People who are angered by you don't buy your product, and tend not to respect one's delineated rights and restrictions.

Funny you would say that...
I played oblivion for the first time at a friends house. It was just the main game..no mods..no extras.
I was impressed with the graphics...but not enough to buy it.
Then while looking online I found mods made by people. I started with mystic elves first. It was cool. I had a better looking character. Then I tried others.

Well that hooked me. NOT the game it self, but the user made mods. So I bought it and SI (I could had just pirated it, but didn't because I liked it so much)

So...now I was going to get morrowind this next weekend...but now I am not going to bother buying it. I may just get a umm... "copy" and play with it...but I am not going to buy it now.

it's just crazy how quickly Beth Shoot themselves in the foot. they had a prime chance to show the fans, their income some love but they blew it, again.

they could've said "this is a neat idea but can you substitute the content." Instead of immediately attacking it with the "warhammer of Legal might"

Give it a day or two. You will start to see it showing up on torrent index sites. You cant just make information disappear from the world wide network onces its out there. The big question is will the people working on the mod comply? Or will they continue to work a little more anonymously through a bay of pirates. -.o

Well, since so many other users have commented, i suppose i should drop down my two cents. I also think this is one of the dumbest things bethesda could've done. They've possibly killed alot (if not all) interest from the modding community to create a more "complete" experience which includes morrowind (and all the other chapters as well!). My question is "If this mod is banned, where will the line be drawn next?" Will all the mods like "borderless cyrodiil" or anything involving the other provinces NOT included in the original Oblivion become a breach of the EULA too? Nevermind the fact that some of us (myself included) have been with this franchise since it first emerged and always wanted to include the "whole story" into one game. Even though Bethesda will probably never read this, "If you're worried about your wallets getting fat, why not look into the motives of your HUGE fanbase, instead of trying to make it into a bunch of legal redtape?