The reason i bring this poll up is cause here (in Australia) we miss out on quite alot, In fact. one of the games banned here was one of the best ones ive ever played.
i think the way they ban games and cut out sections of it is total bogus, i mean, Why the hell cant we have Rated R games?!?! WHY DAMNITT WHY?!??!!
Any who! discuss, keep it clean,reasonable and dont forget to vote!!
cheers
-Untitled
Full Version: Rated R Games
Why don't they allow The Witcher uncensored, when they allow movies like SAW and Hostel? 
QUOTE
Why don't they allow The Witcher uncensored, when they allow movies like SAW and Hostel? wacko.gif
See!?! thats my point!!!!
I don't suppose you could explain how they do do things, for the benefit of ignorant foreigners like me?
QUOTE
I don't suppose you could explain how they do do things, for the benefit of ignorant foreigners like me?
of Course. as far as i know the Australian censorship is a very hypocritical Part of our Government.
For short, They get to Decide what is "Legal and Illegal" and Allowed to be Crossed over into Teh Aus.
The reason i say its hypocritical is cause.. well for Example We can watch the Movie Reservoir Dogs But The game is Illegal..
What the bloody hell?!
anyway, like a said in the start of this poll, its total bogus. if your REALLY interested about the Australian censorship The link is here
http://libertus.net/censor/
Actually, i meant what ratings there are, as that seems to be the main premise of this debate.
If people are allowed to take a group of 2-5 year olds into the gorriest, sexual rated R movies, then games shouldn't be banned when it's supposed to be adults that buy it anyway.
QUOTE
Actually, i meant what ratings there are, as that seems to be the main premise of this debate.
haha, oh.. well theres pretty much everything, from © to (XXX) But when it comes to games.. MA+15 is the Limit..
As an American, I couldn't care less about Australian, but, as a gamer, I think all games should be allowed no matter what the rating. So, an American gamer, I think that all games should be allowed in America no matter what the rating but couldn't care less about what games are and aren't banned in Australia.
The heart of the matter is that kids do play these games. Even if it's banned in a country, kids still play them. Making them banned, or restricted only makes kids want to play them more. The problem is not the government agencies, it is game makers who purposly go beyond acceptable amounts of gore to make their game appeal to a younger, or atleast a less educated, audience. This is not artistic expression, this is marketing. If they can make a violent game that just barely passes through the censors, but still causes news and media to report on them, their job is done. The rationale is that if someone thinks a game is so wrong, you're going to naturally want to see what they're talking about. The sales of GTA 3, Vice City, and SA all went up after the games were featured in the news when some idiot decided to blame them for their own stupidity. The sales of GTA:SA went up when the press got wind of the "hot coffie" additions. Even though these games are labeled for adults, they are still targeted toward mindless children, and many people still see videogames as being something Adults don't do. The press doesn't mention that these games are designed to be played by people over 17. And they still show the same footage from Doom every time they talk about video game violence. Doom people! It's a game so old that those who were around playing it for countless hours are recieving social security checks. Clearly it didn't turn Generation X or Generation Y into the sociopathic murderers that they expected.
Any instance of violence witnessed by an individual increases that individual's likelyhood toward violence. The difference between movies and vidoe games is in duration and perception. Most people don't watch violent movies for 4-8 hours a day, 3+ days a week, most gamers play for atleast half that time, and often more. There is also a different perception between watching commit violent acts, than there is when you press the keys to commit the same act. More over movies usually paint the violent act in a negative light, while games make the violent act just part of the game, something which you will have to do. This difference causes people who play videogames to percieve violence as an act which has to be done, and puts them in constant exposure to that violence so that they become numb to it.
Even though one session of GTA won't make you run out onto the street, steal a car, and look for some hooker to beat up, it will affect you. People who have played the game have been heard mentioning feelings along the lines of "I was just tempted to get out of my car, and beat the hell out of that guy walking down the street for no reason". Or "I was tempted to blow through the red light and run over some people at the crosswalk". Believe it or not, I've actually heard this stuff from normally stable people. After playing the game myself I was tempted to commit a violent act without purpose or regard for my own moral code.
The truth is that there have been more than enough studies done to link videogames and violence, and the results are rather condemning. Just because you make things rated for adults doesn't mean jack. Often you have people below the age working in the places that sell these games. Even those right around the age might be tempted to just look the otherway if they see a classmate or someone they know wanting to buy it. Then you have parents who spoil their kids rotten. If the kid (even teenagers) whines and screams enough, they can get whatever they want. As parenting in general goes down the toilet, this problem will only continue to get worse, and naturally nobody wants to be told about how they're a bad parent, so some other reason has to be given.
Any instance of violence witnessed by an individual increases that individual's likelyhood toward violence. The difference between movies and vidoe games is in duration and perception. Most people don't watch violent movies for 4-8 hours a day, 3+ days a week, most gamers play for atleast half that time, and often more. There is also a different perception between watching commit violent acts, than there is when you press the keys to commit the same act. More over movies usually paint the violent act in a negative light, while games make the violent act just part of the game, something which you will have to do. This difference causes people who play videogames to percieve violence as an act which has to be done, and puts them in constant exposure to that violence so that they become numb to it.
Even though one session of GTA won't make you run out onto the street, steal a car, and look for some hooker to beat up, it will affect you. People who have played the game have been heard mentioning feelings along the lines of "I was just tempted to get out of my car, and beat the hell out of that guy walking down the street for no reason". Or "I was tempted to blow through the red light and run over some people at the crosswalk". Believe it or not, I've actually heard this stuff from normally stable people. After playing the game myself I was tempted to commit a violent act without purpose or regard for my own moral code.
The truth is that there have been more than enough studies done to link videogames and violence, and the results are rather condemning. Just because you make things rated for adults doesn't mean jack. Often you have people below the age working in the places that sell these games. Even those right around the age might be tempted to just look the otherway if they see a classmate or someone they know wanting to buy it. Then you have parents who spoil their kids rotten. If the kid (even teenagers) whines and screams enough, they can get whatever they want. As parenting in general goes down the toilet, this problem will only continue to get worse, and naturally nobody wants to be told about how they're a bad parent, so some other reason has to be given.
QUOTE(Vagrant0 @ Nov 30 2007, 11:42 PM) 
Even though one session of GTA won't make you run out onto the street, steal a car, and look for some hooker to beat up, it will affect you. People who have played the game have been heard mentioning feelings along the lines of "I was just tempted to get out of my car, and beat the hell out of that guy walking down the street for no reason". Or "I was tempted to blow through the red light and run over some people at the crosswalk". Believe it or not, I've actually heard this stuff from normally stable people. After playing the game myself I was tempted to commit a violent act without purpose or regard for my own moral code.
I know what you mean.
It's kinda scary when you start thinking of stabbing someone or you're just swearing all the time (*cough* GTA *cough*
).Still, I believe that those people that actually commits that kind of crimes just can't see the difference between the game world and the real world. We "normally" have control over our actions, as well as our thoughts, but sometimes you try to bite off more than you can chew, which is when accidents happens.
So what to do? Should we just ban all violent movies/games/books? Should we check our mental health each year, to see if we're stable enough to watch a horror movie?
(Just for the record, I HATE JACK THOMPSON....
)Edit: *GASP* Vagrant0 has changed his avatar!
Ok I've been silent too long to the point were it's starting to bother me and even scare me, so here's my opinion. Please dont flame me I am entitled to my opinions. I am 16 myself and my parents have been buying me these games ever since I was about 8-10 and stopped monitoring content around 12. And even though I will be 17 on the 31st of December of this year, I still have sympathy for those who wont be so fortunate because I was once in their position in the way where I felt like an oppressed minority. The government makes too much emphasis on ratings that it almost seems like the law, when in reality parents are responsible. This also means parents know when their children know right from wrong and buy the games for them. I see nothing wrong with that, as that is what I had to go through. My brother and my cousins experienced the same thing I did and had parents buy their games. In general, I'm against censorship. And I also try to emphasize that the parents that buy those games for their children are NOT all bad people. Do I go around killing innocent people? Of course not because my parents taught me right from wrong.
Sorry for the huge lecture but I really needed to get this off my chest. I often think people have a misunderstanding of many parents who buy games for their children, so I present my story to all of you. If I ever have children I want them to be able to buy these games for them when the time is right without some BS laws. As another point, I think it's total BS how they try to censor someone under 17 when they saw that stuff at about 12. Wikipedia defines this as ageism, and more specificly adultocracy, which I will still strongly oppose even when I turn 17. By the way I received my copy of Oblivion when I was 15 I bought the old version off a friend at school.
For those who don't know I'm American. But I have so much fear that if Hillary gets elected president I may be obligated to leave the US if petitions and protests fail, and I really do like being patriotic.
Sorry for the huge lecture but I really needed to get this off my chest. I often think people have a misunderstanding of many parents who buy games for their children, so I present my story to all of you. If I ever have children I want them to be able to buy these games for them when the time is right without some BS laws. As another point, I think it's total BS how they try to censor someone under 17 when they saw that stuff at about 12. Wikipedia defines this as ageism, and more specificly adultocracy, which I will still strongly oppose even when I turn 17. By the way I received my copy of Oblivion when I was 15 I bought the old version off a friend at school.
For those who don't know I'm American. But I have so much fear that if Hillary gets elected president I may be obligated to leave the US if petitions and protests fail, and I really do like being patriotic.
QUOTE
The heart of the matter is that kids do play these games. Even if it's banned in a country, kids still play them. Making them banned, or restricted only makes kids want to play them more. The problem is not the government agencies, it is game makers who purposly go beyond acceptable amounts of gore to make their game appeal to a younger, or atleast a less educated, audience. This is not artistic expression, this is marketing. If they can make a violent game that just barely passes through the censors, but still causes news and media to report on them, their job is done. The rationale is that if someone thinks a game is so wrong, you're going to naturally want to see what they're talking about. The sales of GTA 3, Vice City, and SA all went up after the games were featured in the news when some idiot decided to blame them for their own stupidity. The sales of GTA:SA went up when the press got wind of the "hot coffie" additions. Even though these games are labeled for adults, they are still targeted toward mindless children, and many people still see videogames as being something Adults don't do. The press doesn't mention that these games are designed to be played by people over 17. And they still show the same footage from Doom every time they talk about video game violence. Doom people! It's a game so old that those who were around playing it for countless hours are recieving social security checks. Clearly it didn't turn Generation X or Generation Y into the sociopathic murderers that they expected.
Any instance of violence witnessed by an individual increases that individual's likelyhood toward violence. The difference between movies and vidoe games is in duration and perception. Most people don't watch violent movies for 4-8 hours a day, 3+ days a week, most gamers play for atleast half that time, and often more. There is also a different perception between watching commit violent acts, than there is when you press the keys to commit the same act. More over movies usually paint the violent act in a negative light, while games make the violent act just part of the game, something which you will have to do. This difference causes people who play videogames to percieve violence as an act which has to be done, and puts them in constant exposure to that violence so that they become numb to it.
Even though one session of GTA won't make you run out onto the street, steal a car, and look for some hooker to beat up, it will affect you. People who have played the game have been heard mentioning feelings along the lines of "I was just tempted to get out of my car, and beat the hell out of that guy walking down the street for no reason". Or "I was tempted to blow through the red light and run over some people at the crosswalk". Believe it or not, I've actually heard this stuff from normally stable people. After playing the game myself I was tempted to commit a violent act without purpose or regard for my own moral code.
The truth is that there have been more than enough studies done to link videogames and violence, and the results are rather condemning. Just because you make things rated for adults doesn't mean jack. Often you have people below the age working in the places that sell these games. Even those right around the age might be tempted to just look the otherway if they see a classmate or someone they know wanting to buy it. Then you have parents who spoil their kids rotten. If the kid (even teenagers) whines and screams enough, they can get whatever they want. As parenting in general goes down the toilet, this problem will only continue to get worse, and naturally nobody wants to be told about how they're a bad parent, so some other reason has to be given.
Any instance of violence witnessed by an individual increases that individual's likelyhood toward violence. The difference between movies and vidoe games is in duration and perception. Most people don't watch violent movies for 4-8 hours a day, 3+ days a week, most gamers play for atleast half that time, and often more. There is also a different perception between watching commit violent acts, than there is when you press the keys to commit the same act. More over movies usually paint the violent act in a negative light, while games make the violent act just part of the game, something which you will have to do. This difference causes people who play videogames to percieve violence as an act which has to be done, and puts them in constant exposure to that violence so that they become numb to it.
Even though one session of GTA won't make you run out onto the street, steal a car, and look for some hooker to beat up, it will affect you. People who have played the game have been heard mentioning feelings along the lines of "I was just tempted to get out of my car, and beat the hell out of that guy walking down the street for no reason". Or "I was tempted to blow through the red light and run over some people at the crosswalk". Believe it or not, I've actually heard this stuff from normally stable people. After playing the game myself I was tempted to commit a violent act without purpose or regard for my own moral code.
The truth is that there have been more than enough studies done to link videogames and violence, and the results are rather condemning. Just because you make things rated for adults doesn't mean jack. Often you have people below the age working in the places that sell these games. Even those right around the age might be tempted to just look the otherway if they see a classmate or someone they know wanting to buy it. Then you have parents who spoil their kids rotten. If the kid (even teenagers) whines and screams enough, they can get whatever they want. As parenting in general goes down the toilet, this problem will only continue to get worse, and naturally nobody wants to be told about how they're a bad parent, so some other reason has to be given.
Thats a Very good point, i also agree with what you said about GTA. theres has been a few cases where a kid has been sent to court and as a defense, has blammed a game for his or her actions.
and yes, us aussies always break the laws of ratings. most of us dont really care, you could walk into a video store at the age of 11 and hire Dusk Till Dawn.
Its just bullpoo, why we cant get Rated r Games here let alone anywhere in general just sucks. the government should really get onto it.
PS. sorry if it is'nt much of a good reply. i just woke up.
-EDIT- haha!! it turned into bull poo!!
I tend to see this as a simple matter of responsibility for one's own actions and morals regardless of what types of stimuli are presented to a given person. Soldiers and cops see violence everyday (and they also often must commit violence to remedy a situation or situations), and by the previous rationale that would mean that people in these professions would be more likely to go apesh*t and start shooting/beating people for no reason. Do certain individuals in these professions wrongfully commit violence toward innocents?? I'm sure they do. But then so do plenty of other people not associated with those professions. I think it has a lot more to do with what type of person someone is rather than what types of stimuli they're exposed to.
We are humans, not wild animals. We each choose a moral code (or lack thereof) and live by it. If you allow yourself to become even partially swayed by what a video game shows you on a TV, then your moral code must not be that strong to begin with. I've played plenty of violent video games in my time, but I've rarely been compelled to go out and do the things I've seen in them to real people. My point is we're supposed to be smart enough to know the difference.
As far as kids are concerned the blame for that rests solely on the parents. It is true parenting is going to hell in a handbasket these days. But it's always convenient to have something else to blame it on. As long as a developer is within the bounds of the law, then they are not doing anything illegal and so the duty of shielding kids from these sorts of things belongs to the parents, and only to the parents. Basically it's like we oughtta just censor everything and make a bunch of new laws simply because parents are too damn lazy, negligent or weak-willed to simply deny their kids access to these things. If a parent isn't smart enough to do a little research on an M-rated game like GTA before handing it to their kids, then they don't need to have kids in the first place.
But I for one have no desire to be part of a new world order where everything is rated PG and Martha Stewart is the best thing on TV. I, as an adult, have no desire to be penalized for my viewing/gaming choices (which by current law I'm entitled to) because some idiot parents don't feel like filtering the media their kids are exposed to. It's not the government's job to raise children (and coincidentally I as an adult don't need the government telling me what I can and can't watch).
We are humans, not wild animals. We each choose a moral code (or lack thereof) and live by it. If you allow yourself to become even partially swayed by what a video game shows you on a TV, then your moral code must not be that strong to begin with. I've played plenty of violent video games in my time, but I've rarely been compelled to go out and do the things I've seen in them to real people. My point is we're supposed to be smart enough to know the difference.
As far as kids are concerned the blame for that rests solely on the parents. It is true parenting is going to hell in a handbasket these days. But it's always convenient to have something else to blame it on. As long as a developer is within the bounds of the law, then they are not doing anything illegal and so the duty of shielding kids from these sorts of things belongs to the parents, and only to the parents. Basically it's like we oughtta just censor everything and make a bunch of new laws simply because parents are too damn lazy, negligent or weak-willed to simply deny their kids access to these things. If a parent isn't smart enough to do a little research on an M-rated game like GTA before handing it to their kids, then they don't need to have kids in the first place.
But I for one have no desire to be part of a new world order where everything is rated PG and Martha Stewart is the best thing on TV. I, as an adult, have no desire to be penalized for my viewing/gaming choices (which by current law I'm entitled to) because some idiot parents don't feel like filtering the media their kids are exposed to. It's not the government's job to raise children (and coincidentally I as an adult don't need the government telling me what I can and can't watch).
QUOTE(DeathWarrior @ Dec 1 2007, 02:14 AM)
Do I go around killing innocent people? Of course not because my parents taught me right from wrong.
Some do not have that kind of control, even if their parents have taught them how.
Well that's another point to bring up and in a way I'm actually glad you said that I forgot al about that. I know that it's slim to nothing that the government will make changes I'm just trying to defend my "stereotype" I guess you can call it. Yes I realize there are insane retards who kill people like in games no matter what their parents say. I'm just trying to defend those who and sane enough to realize reality from fantasy, there are other people my age and even younger on this forum. Those people who "don't learn" are usually the one's with a severe mental illness.
Exactly. I can understand why people don't want kids who have a mental illness to play GTA, but GTA shouldn't affect normal kids that much.
haha, i don't mean to bitch but this topic isn't about GTA.
though, a good example when it comes to the discussion at hand, its kinda looking like were going off topic..
the matter at hand ladies and gentlemen THE MATTER AT HAND!
though, a good example when it comes to the discussion at hand, its kinda looking like were going off topic..
the matter at hand ladies and gentlemen THE MATTER AT HAND!
QUOTE(untitled @ Dec 2 2007, 09:39 PM)
haha, i don't mean to bitch but this topic isn't about GTA.
though, a good example when it comes to the discussion at hand, its kinda looking like were going off topic..
the matter at hand ladies and gentlemen THE MATTER AT HAND!
though, a good example when it comes to the discussion at hand, its kinda looking like were going off topic..
the matter at hand ladies and gentlemen THE MATTER AT HAND!
Yeah, sure, but the GTA series is basically the culprit for all these ratings/restrictions and stuff (No, seriously, it is).
(.... then we got this guy... ugh, just look what he says about The Sims 2...
)
QUOTE(Jonlissla @ Dec 2 2007, 10:33 PM)
QUOTE(untitled @ Dec 2 2007, 09:39 PM)
haha, i don't mean to bitch but this topic isn't about GTA.
though, a good example when it comes to the discussion at hand, its kinda looking like were going off topic..
the matter at hand ladies and gentlemen THE MATTER AT HAND!
though, a good example when it comes to the discussion at hand, its kinda looking like were going off topic..
the matter at hand ladies and gentlemen THE MATTER AT HAND!
Yeah, sure, but the GTA series is basically the culprit for all these ratings/restrictions and stuff (No, seriously, it is).
(.... then we got this guy... ugh, just look what he says about The Sims 2...
)Meh, even after it's been modded to hell, the Sims and Sims 2 aren't much to talk about. Nudity isn't anything, least of all fake nudity. Any 8 year old with an internet connection can type "sex" into google and see thousands of pictures featuring nudity, and just about any sexual act imaginable. Someone should make this guy familiar with rule 34 of the internet (wiki it). He's clearly just trying to get people's attention, and to gain the following of people who've been living in a box the last 40 years. The game shows nudity in a context that isn't immoral (atleast for those of us who don't undress in the dark (or with our eyes shut, wearing thick rubber gloves (not that I'm trying to judge))) and shows sex as part of a relationship between mature, consenting individuals. The Bible describes a sex act more graphic than anything anyone would see in the game. It's just plain rediculous.
QUOTE
Meh, even after it's been modded to hell, the Sims and Sims 2 aren't much to talk about. Nudity isn't anything, least of all fake nudity. Any 8 year old with an internet connection can type "sex" into google and see thousands of pictures featuring nudity, and just about any sexual act imaginable. Someone should make this guy familiar with rule 34 of the internet (wiki it). He's clearly just trying to get people's attention, and to gain the following of people who've been living in a box the last 40 years. The game shows nudity in a context that isn't immoral (atleast for those of us who don't undress in the dark (or with our eyes shut, wearing thick rubber gloves (not that I'm trying to judge))) and shows sex as part of a relationship between mature, consenting individuals. The Bible describes a sex act more graphic than anything anyone would see in the game. It's just plain rediculous.
hahahah, couldn't of hit the nail on the head any harder. and did anyone Play the game "Singles" ?
or at least i think it was called Singles, it was like The Sims copy, but it focused on getting a couple to get it on, and THAT had full frontal nudity and everything.. i still don't understand why we cant have Rated R video games. i mean sure underage youths are going to play it, but thats what parents are for. To see over the kids shoulder and check if everything is ok. i haven't come across anybody to act "Gun Crazy and start killing everyone" the only difference i noticed was with people either saying
1 " this is so cool"
or
2 "hahah!! this is the funniest thing ive ever seen!!"
Sometimes even
3 "alright cody, get outta the room for a few mins, im going to umm.. unload the eer... Lizard.. IF you know what i mean"
So nothing out of ordinary.. Besides the third one.. But even then it wasn't anything at all worth banning.
QUOTE(untitled @ Dec 3 2007, 08:08 AM)
but thats what parents are for.
And most parents fail
QUOTE
To see over the kids shoulder and check if everything is ok
Parents probably shouldn't watch their children like a hawk. Being aware of what games they're playing, and what they're doing online is one thing, being too protective will only lead to a larger period of lashing out. And none of this means anything if you havn't already displayed good parenting skills and have spent the time explaining things to your child in a mature, open minded manner.
QUOTE
And none of this means anything if you havn't already displayed good parenting skills and have spent the time explaining things to your child in a mature, open minded manner.
I should of mentioned that.. i was always told by my mum that any movie or game i play or watch isn't real. then, growing up i sooner or later realized that some things i watch (like The news for example) are serious.
worked out well, i don't really get that scared if a watch a horror movie, and i certainty know the consequences if i run around, doing jobs for gangsters, stealing cars and killing people.
So.. Would that be the reason of no rated R games? A lack of what is supposed to be the *right way* of parenting? Not saying that there IS a right way.. Hence these little guys >>> *
Hmm.. This still needs some thought.
QUOTE(untitled @ Dec 3 2007, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE
And none of this means anything if you havn't already displayed good parenting skills and have spent the time explaining things to your child in a mature, open minded manner.
I should of mentioned that.. i was always told by my mum that any movie or game i play or watch isn't real.
Ever heard of "special effects"?
I have to admit, even though it isn't real, some movies can be VERY convincing, such as the remake of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
QUOTE
Ever heard of "special effects"? glare.gif
I have to admit, even though it isn't real, some movies can be VERY convincing, such as the remake of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
I have to admit, even though it isn't real, some movies can be VERY convincing, such as the remake of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
haha, don't get me wrong, some movies HAVE scared the living crap outta me.. like watching the Exorcist... when i was 11..
But these days .pppsh.. i would Jump at best, but still sleep well at night
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