Recently I found this page, detailing the 14 points that define fascism, and how the bush administration satifies each of them.

It corroborates all its points with articles from hundreds of different sources, and I fail to find fault with most of it's arguments.

I would like to draw special attention to the article entitled:

Rolling Stone does some investigative and rather exhaustive digging into public documents and says we’re almost guaranteed the 2004 election results were massively rigged

I would like to find out how aware people are of this, and what they think.

I am not an American, but America is so big now that it affects the whole world, and it is everyody's business.

WarKirby

The neoconservatives aren't fascists. Fascists would make the trains run on time.

As a citizen of Great Britain you should probably be more concerned about fascism in your own country. The degree to which citizens are watched is astounding. Practically every public area in your entire country is under constant surveillance.

And MB's right. Fascists are efficient. You can accuse the Americans of many things but efficiency isn't one of them.

The beauty of the US electoral process is that it is impossible to really know how people voted. Sure, it probably was rigged, but that doesn't change the fact that the democratic party was a total mess at the time. The best they could come up with were Dean and Kerry, neither of them would be capable of doing the job. Yeah, Bush may just be an idiot, but that's exactly what was needed in the whitehouse. The president isn't some great mastermind who decides everything in the country, he is a figure head. He makes speaches, signs papers, and takes the blame for everything that goes wrong. Bill Clinton wasn't in charge, Bush Sr. wasn't in charge, Reagan certainly wasn't in charge. It makes sense to do things this way because the average U.S. citizen is uneducated, and incapable of making an intelligent decision about even their own lives. How could you trust them to decide the fate of the country? I could go on, but don't want to spoil things for you.

Anyway, the election is done and overwith two years ago, move on and accept things as they are. If it's any consolation, the 2008 election will probably be "fixed" too, but Bush probably won't be running. One less thing to complain about.

Ha ha, I always love how americans come up with conspiracy theories, makes me feel better about the fact that every night for the past two months I have been up at the slightest sound checking the windows because every third night I find someone in our yard and at three in the morning he is not looking for work or food.

That we all sleep (my husband, brother and two of his friends) with some blunt instrument under our beds, that we have a practised routine, a plan of action if you will, for dealing with burglaries. That the people doing this are hungry and desperate made so by a system of my parents creation, only makes me cry if its daylight.

That an ex political bigwig can call it a travesty of justice if he is convicted of fraud and corruption and have ministers of parliament escort him heroically to jail.

That the ex vice-president (was fired after his financial adviser and friend was convicted of fraud and corruption implicating him, he's still awaiting trial for that) thinks that he is a suitable candidate for presidency after being accused but found not guilty of rape, of an HIV positive AIDS activist who is his other friends daughter.
He didnt use a condom but took a shower afterwards, and he sure he's alright. He was at the head of the moral revival campaign, but told us that according to his Zulu culture, a man cannot let a woman go to sleep unsatisfied if he can see that she really 'wants' it. Yeah I 'wanted' it too which is why I was raped at twenty.
Which is surely more than you needed to know, was a bad night, someone tried to poison my dog.

And we don't rig elections here we can simply have the ruling party, who lost a city change the structure of that city to replace the elected mayor of the opposition party with a comittee of their own making, after they couldn't even get control of said city after the 'crossing over' period has passed. Oh this is when the representative of the party you voted for has a chance to take your vote to whatever party offers him the most, usually the ruling party with taxpayer money, always nice to have a goverment job with perks and bribes.
Certainly no election rigging here. No Facism either. Its pollitically(whahaha) incorrect. Which is worse than morally (whahaahaa) objectionable here. But our trains certainly don't run on time, they get burnt. I wouldn't use one if I could still walk.

http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/articles/arti...x?ID=ST6A210366

Yep, I guess from a certain perspective one could argue that because people don't have anything concrete or real to blame for the problems around them, they have to blame other things. Be it the faults of a political system, and those running that system, or trying to work everything into some giant plan to keep civil order, and act without public notice. I think this all has something to do with trying to remain sane in an insane world. Atleast the thugs outside, you know where they stand.

Back on topic, Bush isn't a total facist atleast, he hasn't started killing the millions of people who speak against him. But hey, we can always hope

Ja, sorry about that one. What my rant yesterday does illustrate to myself (after 8 hours of good sleep) is that your own terror and focus on your small little uncertain world around you, paves the way toward fascism.
Because it blinds you to the bigger picture, and how important the implications of a fascist America would be not only to everyone else but what the impact would be on your own country. Most of our TV programs are from America, our magazines, product lines, market and economic research and theories, you name it, all influenced and dictated by what happens in America.

What worries me is that fascism seems to beget fascism, our previous government practised and legalized a unique brand of fascism (and horror, normalized it, insidious and still present today, the members of which are going 'see life was much better under us and not these evil bastards'), and those that fought against it never want to be that powerless again and seems to be reaching for more and more power.
Power to dictate scrutinize and practise the sort of political opportunism that seems to be trademarks of fascism.

I need to remind myself that the thug outside my window can be dealt with, he is not the problem. That if I want the right of choice and respect for myself, I need to give that opportunity to others. That I cannot get tired of doing this.

Taking Warkirby's article and comparing it to what I see around here, makes me lift up my eyes out of my own poo. Thank you Vagrant0 and Warkirby for that.

PS. My dog is fine, I had a 'save your dog from poisoning' kit that I bought from her vet.

Wow.

firstly, I assume you are talking about our CCTV system. It's used against criminals, not innocent members of the public. You can be arrested for commiting a crime, but not for speaking out against the "fascist" government.

And another thing, if Britain were fascist, then the government would be in control. It would control the police and the media for a start. The government controls neither. The media attacks the government every single day. The police have recently launched an investigation against the government, about claims that it had a cash-for-peerages scandal, Tony Blair could even be arrested for it.

And also, Fascist governments are not always efficient. The NSDAP ("Nazi" for short) government of germany is the most famous example of a fascist government. Go on the internet, look them up, and then try saying that they were efficient in anything but killing people. Hitler and his government was a chaotic mess.

The Nazis weren't fascists.

I hope you're not going to bring up the "socialist" thing, and claim that they're that...

That is exactly what I'm going to do.

From Wiktionary:

I'd say they were. I'd also say that the Soviet Union was.

Okay, so that makes two: you, and the bored thirteen-year-old who wrote up that definition.

Yeah, sorry, you're going to have to do better.

From Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary
I suppose that the 'dictatorial leader' aspect might not apply to Soviet Russia (which I should have used instead of "Soviet Union").

And have you actually...studied the third reich?

Their concept of socialism is different from the one that stereotypical socialism holds. It's a racist and nationalist view of it.

The Nazis were fascist, no argument about that.

Yep, nazis were fascists allright.

Nationalsozialistist: Someone who believes in a arian german masterrace and other lesser races. He or she also thinks the lesser races are not worthy of living.

And that is an exact match with fascist, the only thing different is that 'own race' with fascist is changed into 'arian race' with nazis.

Nazis weren't the ones to invent fascism though, that was Mussolini.

And I can know, I did study the third reich

Back to the original topic: I think fascism is regaining a lot of power in the West the last few years... It is sad, but nothing can be done about it...

cya

fritz

A "Nationalsozialistist" as you put it, doesn't always believe in a "arian german masterrace". About 500 swedes joined Hitler in WW 2, becuase they wanted Sweden to be a "clean" country. That is, only white people, getting rid of the Sami, only have trade with the northern countries etc.
To be honest, there are plenty of racists in Sweden. You notice it in school/work. I think that not only the West has problems with racism, but also Europe.
A shame really, that people can't work together.

With Nationalsozialisten (or nazis) people mean the german fascist before and during WWII. In other countries they were just called fascists. Don't know why that is though. For example: the Dutch fascist movement was called the NSB, the Nationaal-Socialistische Beweging, clearly have the name National-Socialist, but aren't called nazis, just fascists.

About those Swedes who joined in WW2: you probably mean the Fremdlegionen, no? Then you must know even more Dutch, Belgian, ... people joined. The dutch 'SS Volunteer Grenadier Brigade Landstorm Nederland' for example, had over 2400 soldiers in 1943. Most of them weren't national socialistic: they just wanted to fight against communism. Here's some propaganda towards the dutch people. which speeks of being a true Dutchmen and fighting against communism.

When I said the West, it included Europe and Northren-America. I'm sorry if it was unclear, but at our school we generally portray these two as 'The West'

Cya

Fritz

currently the U.S. government is completely clueless not only are the republicans wrong in some ways but so are the democrats but seriously the government today all around the world is slowly starting to be more fascist except like canada most of eastern europe is socialist and many people in the U.S. want to have a system of government like them except for a few crazy people who believe in dictatorship or anarchism



_____________________
dude stick it to them man
make love not war

LOOk in the dictionary and define FASCISM
Wait until the Democrate take over the white house-then you'll see Fascism!

I don't think that the US is becoming Fascist, as there is no mass basis for it. I think that today, Fascism is largely a political swearword, used against a right-wing person that someone does not like.

Has the US been headed in a reactionary direction? Yes, it has. But it is not fascist. In fact, more and more people over here in the US are not happy with the way things are being run. I seriously doubt that they would tolerate Fascism.

Fascist? I failed to see the jet plane that crashed into the Reichstag before Hitler began his advance. I definitely don't agree with everything Bush does (or this country in general), but a retaliatory response is not Fascism.

Let's say someone wrecks a car into your house attempting to kill you because they don't like you or your past practices. You going to turn the other cheek, or would you rather risk looking "fascist" to go after them?

The only other thing I'll add is that I do think the US's stay in the Middle East is way too over-extended.

EDIT: To respond to the claim that the Nazis "weren't efficient in anything but killing people," it may interest you to know that for a large portion of Nazi rule, the Germans were the most technologically advanced and highest producing nation in the Western World, and that includes the US. That's why everyone had such a hard time with them. You don't obtain that level of technology and military strength by being inefficient. It was only toward the end of WW2 when the German economy and government really fell apart. I'm not a Nazi sympathizer or anything, those are just facts. I've read a great deal on the subject of WW2.

Well, you are right: there was no jet plane that crashed in the Reichstag. But AH did use the 'Fire in the Reichstag' to take full control of Germany, thus beginning his advance. Still, you are right: the US can't be called a fascist state.

Indeed: Germany had the best weapons of WW2. They were close to creating a rocket called the V4 (or V5, can't remember exactly), which could hit New York. As said above, Germany had the first operational jet fighters. Also, tanks with IR were used at the end of the war, but AT-guns with IR were already used in 1940! The only thing allies had before Germany, was the A-bomb. O, yes, I'm no Nazi sympathizer either, just interested in the German Armed Forces during WWII!

True, true. Definitely not fascist. But to the casual observer, Bush and cronies can be seen as a worryingly rightwing and fundamentalist government. They ain't too big on human rights either (much like the Nazis, but with less executions (probably) and more religion).

fascism
Differences and similarities with Nazism

Nazism

ism: "Formalism, by being an 'ism,' kills form by hugging it to death" (Peter Viereck).


Whats my point? Good question. I have no point. Or, more to the point, what's the point?

We can put a tag on it and name it; what ever! The fact is, America is not perfect, it's just big and powerful and dangerous as well as young and beautiful and full of potential. The American form of government is a living experiment. If this experiment is not allowed to adapt according to the truth it will fail. The American people are supposed to know the truth and use that knowledge to adapt. If they are kept from the truth how can Americans know how to change. Democracy cannot exist in an environment of lies and secrecy. Niether can it exist in the darkness of ignorance and apathy. So, again what's the point.

This nation (and soon the whole world) is realm of double standards. For instance, I cannot use the "N" word because I'm white, but a black person can because he is black. Didn't we call that Racism? No. The double standard erases those titles on certain people.

This "I can do it, but you can't" Idea is one of the reasons most of the world hates us. It all starts with the people. If the people become more moral and realize that there is no color, but only people, then we might be able to restore a good name for the American people to the world.