Helloo folks.
I have been immersed in the amazing fates, history and background of the Dwemer featured in 'Morrowind', and I have tried to find as much information as I can about them both in-game and out. However, apart from the 17 or so ruins on Vvardenfell, the ancient Dwemer city featured in 'Tribunal' amd whatever books I have acquired in-game, I have found out nothing else about this mysterious race.
So if anybody has any links to Dwemer-only (or at least Dwemer-mostly!) sites or the like, I would be grateful if you could post them here.

Perhaps this, uh... Belongs in spoilers.

Dark0ne has kindly hosted the Imperial Library after m0use.net, the site's previous host, fell apart, burst into flames, and left an area of contamination in its wake. Although it has recently adopted Striker, someone that I hate with a firey passion that consumes my soul, into its staff, it still contains many its of useful information about the Dwemer and Elder Scrolls lore in general. If you follow a couple of link trails, you should find some rather interesting sites.

Behold! A tiny glimpse into the dark and oft' times brooding nature, of the"well" of knowledge that is... Marxist Bastard.

I downloaded Blood and Gore, Combat Moves, Modern Adventurer, and a particle effect sword just so that i could beat Striker into a bloody pulp and watch him die in a sea of flames... I've got screenshots, if anybody wants some...

Yes, i know this is sort of OT... Got to hold down the floodgates until this thread is moved...

Think this belongs in lore more than anything... moved.

Meh. I suppose.

The Dwemer were a race of elves that broke apart to advance their own secular causes on Vvardenfell, the Velothi Mountains, and various places scattered throughout Morrowind province. They are said to have been master architects and enchanters, a reason why many of the extraordinary structures and artifacts around Tamriel have been attributed to them. Since they came to inhabit the same area as the Chimer, fighting often broke out and the Dwemer had to focus on maintaining a military of robotic constructs. Eventually, the Dwemer military evolves from creating steam-powered gizmos to reconstructing Lorkhan. The Dwemer reconstruct Lorkhan as a giant golem called Numidium under the leadership of Kagrenac, operating in secret, without the knowledge of Dumac Half-Orc, the king of the Dwemer.

This was the state until the time of the First Council, when Dwemer and Chimer developed a relative truce, with the Chimer House Dagoth acting as a buffer between the two, promoting the Dwemer secular agenda in Chimer culture. However, this peace breaks as Red Mountain erupts because of Kagrenac's experiments on the Heart of Lorkhan. Somehow, Kagrenac's plans for the heart are leaked. The information is passed to Dagoth Ur, who passes it on to Nerevar. Since Nerevar is more-or-less in bed with Azura, he finds this to be an incredible blasphemy and orders a meeting with Dumac, who predictibly denies everything on the grounds that he simply wasn't informed.

Nerevar and a few Chimeri warriors break into Red Mountain and plan an attack on Numidium. Trying to act quickly, Kagrenac tries to make his race invincible using the heart, but instead makes the Dwemer simply disappear. Sotha Sil decided to carry on the work of the Dwemer in his Clockwork City afterwards.

That is not true at all. The Dwemer did indeed create many constructs, the Animiculi, but they did not solely make up the Dwemer miliraty force. The Dwemer had fully armoured warriors, so that they might LOOK like contructs, but were most definitly not.

Well, that was just speculation on my behalf. If your statement's proof is the existance of Dwemer armor, that armor is that metal exterior ripped off of a Shpere Centurion. IIRC, this information can be obtained from any armorer.

*looks at dwemer curiass, then at sphere centurion* Uh, I think there's a bit of a size problem there! The curiass alone is too big to fit them! Just look at the ball compared to the size of the armor, it won't fit. Anyway, why would a sphere centurion need greaves, boots or bracers?

Dwemer 'armour' has been modified, hammered and reshaped from the metallic exterior of the Centurions and other constructs.. It doesn't mean that the 'armour' was actually worn by the constructs! LOL

But it makes you wonder what their real armour actually looked like.. Personally I think that at least the cuirasses found in-game are the real deal; to back this up (SPOILER WARNING, DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED 'TRIBUNAL'!) the ash piles in the Dwemer city underneath Mournhold (gah can't remember its name.. It isn't even terribly long..), with armour and weapons next to them, seem to indicate that the Dwemer who were standing in those places underwent whatever dsctructive/teleporting/strange cataclysm when Kagrenac used his Tools on the Heart of Lorkhan, and just dropped whatever they were wearing/carrying and disappeared. Now, the cuirasses there are exactly the same as everywhere else, which leads me to two options: 1) The cuirasses, and whatever other armour can be found next to the ash piles, are of original Dwemer-make; and as they are identical to the ones found in Vvardenfell, they are also original. And 2), somebody crept down into the ruins, disabled some of the centurions, stripped the metal off them, created the armour and scattered them all over the place next to some odd ash piles.
I think option 1 is more viable, but believe as you will.

Hmm... I forgot about the ash piles in Tribunal...

However, there is a simple argument to counter that... Just because someone is wearing body armor and carrying a weapon doesn't make that person part of any organized military. Because the Dwemer settlements had large groups of rabid Chimer between them, it would be perfectly logical for a messenger, merchant, or someone spreading the "good word" of Kagrenac to wear body armor.

The Chimeri warriors and Nerevar also had the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur with them after defeating the Dwemer Nerevar intrusted Kagrenec's tools to Dagoth Ur when he was gone. When Nerevar returned he found that Dagoth Ur had experimented with Kagrenecs tools and made himself a god. A fight broke out and Nerevar was killed, but the tribunal somehow got in the possesion of the heart and the tools. They also fell to Lorkhan's heart and established connections to it. Dagoth Ur the must have stolen the heart, hammer and sword, but Vivec held onto the Wraithguard. Dagoth Ur retreated to Red Mountain and the ghostfence was built. Also, Sotha's city is in no way related or of dwemer orgin.

Anyone know why Kagrenec was not sucessful but Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal were. Also, how come Yagrum didn't disappear. I think the tools either acted like a disease to the dwemer or quickened the aging process that is why Yagrum still lived. Also since Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal were all dark elves, which have infinite lifespans or close to that the tools must have took a rapid aging affect on Dwemer. Also if you look at the pictures un the Egg of Time or other dwemer books you shall realize that it wasn't Dagoth Ur's idea to build akulhan(spelling). That could also be why the dwemer disappeared. It makes you wonder. If Dagoth Ur was sucessful wouldn't he have disappeared anyways. But Kagrenec was mortal so that could have been another flaw in his plan. Dagoth Ur was immortal. About the armor: it is probably just made from scrapps off dwemer animuculi who were beyond repair, also I bet a dwemer claymore is made of the blades that come out of the sphere centurions when they attack. On a off note anyone know where Daedriec weapons come from. When I got one from the Vassir-Didnant Mine quest the counciler(blanking on the name) said it was of Altermi(of Altmer) make. Does that mean it was made by high elves.

That's er... Wrong. Completely wrong. And illogical at that. If the Tribunal were with Nerevar in the heart chamber, then why did he have to leave in order to discuss the matter with them? If Dagoth Ur had a strict stance on destroying the tools, then why did he have the sudden change of heart? If Dagoth Ur made himself into a god and killed Nerevar, then how did the Tribunal escape? Why didn't Dagoth Ur conquer Morrowind at that instant? How did the Tribunal make themselves into gods if Dagoth ur was still guarding the tools? How did Dagoth Ur steal everything but Wraithguard, and, since you believe that the effects of the heart don't deplete as one goes away from the heart, why? Your explanation of the Battle of Red Mountain is completely and utterly ridiculous.

So please. If you're going to attempt to disprove something I've said, at least present a rational explanation, and some evidence. I take this little story that you made up and rationalized over a cup of coffee as a personal insuly. Also, please use proper unctuation when you ask a question.

[quote]Moody Woman:

The Chimeri warriors and Nerevar also had the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur with them after defeating the Dwemer[/quote]

Although Dagoth Ur was with Nerevar, as he was a personal friend of his and the place from which Nerevar recieved the information that started it all, Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil were on the slopes of the mountain, indicated by the following:

[quote]The Battle of Red Mountain:

Then Nerevar was carried to us where we waited on the slopes of Red Mountain, and he told us all that had transpired under Red Mountain...[/quote]

[quote]Moody Woman:

When Nerevar returned he found that Dagoth Ur had experimented with Kagrenecs tools and made himself a god. A fight broke out and Nerevar was killed, but the tribunal somehow got in the possesion of the heart and the tools.[/quote]

That Dagoth Ur used the tools on himself immediately afterward is completely contradictory to what really happened. Dagoth Ur was arguing for the destruction of the tools immediately after the Dwemer disappeared. Nerevar came to find him irrational, thinking that only he could be trusted with the tools. Dagoth Ur then escaped as Nerevar and his generals seized the tools and entered his deep slumber with the rest of House Dagoth:

[quote]The Battle of Red Mountain:

So then we went with Nerevar back into Red Mountain and met with Dagoth Ur. Dagoth Ur refused to deliver the tools to us, saying they were dangerous, and we could not touch them. Dagoth Ur seemed to be irrational, insisting that only he could be trusted with the tools, and then we guessed that he had somehow been affected by his handling of the tools, but now I feel sure that he had privately learned the powers of the tools, and had in some confused way decided he must have them for himself. Then Nerevar and our guard resorted to force to secure the tools. Somehow Dagoth Ur and his retainers escaped, but we gained the tools, and delivered them to Sotha Sil for study and safe-keeping.

For some years we kept the oaths we swore to Azura with Nerevar, but during that time, in secret, Sotha Sil must have studied the tools and divined their mysteries. And at last he came to us with a vision of a new world of peace, with justice and honor for nobles, and health and prosperity for the commoners, with the Tribunal as immortal patrons and guides. And dedicating ourselves to this vision of a better world, we made a pilgrimage to Red Mountain and transformed ourselves with the power of Kagrenac's tools.[/quote]

[quote]Moody Woman:

...Sotha's city is in no way related or of dwemer orgin.[/quote]

Sotha Sil continued the work of Kagrenac, and, by extension, the Dwemer race. How else can you explain Sotha Sil's Clockwork City being more technilogically advanced than both Dwemer and Chimer creations?

[quote]Moody Woman:

Anyone know why Kagrenec was not sucessful but Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal were.[/quote]

Because of something called time. Kagrenac used the heart as an act of desperation, his experiments on the heart not yet complete. Sotha Sil thought out the steps necessary to make himself a god, and did further experiments. Dagoth Ur was sleeping the big sleep, and certainly had enough time to go over Kagrenac's work in his mind.

[quote]Moody Woman:

Also, how come Yagrum didn't disappear.[/quote]

Well, there is a distinct possibility that the big hunk of Corprus isn't Dwemer at all. He explains that he was in an "Outer Realm" at the time.

[quote]Moody Woman:

I think the tools either acted like a disease to the dwemer or quickened the aging process that is why Yagrum still lived.[/quote]

Why don't you think about that. If a disease kills every member of a specific race instantaneously, then how is it transmitted?

[quote]Moody Woman:

Also if you look at the pictures un the Egg of Time or other dwemer books you shall realize that it wasn't Dagoth Ur's idea to build akulhan(spelling). That could also be why the dwemer disappeared.[/quote]

So then now you're saying that an idea killed off the Dwemer?

[quote]Moody Woman:

If Dagoth Ur was sucessful wouldn't he have disappeared anyways.[/quote]

No, because he would have been successful!

[quote]Moody Woman:

But Kagrenec was mortal so that could have been another flaw in his plan. Dagoth Ur was immortal.[/quote]

If Dagoth Ur was immortal when he used the heart, then why would he use it in the first place? To make him even more immortal?

Really, if you want to argue something with me, back it up with actual evidence, not lies.

You tell her Marxist!

Also, Almalexia, Vivec and Sotha Sil were not Dark Elves; at that point, there was no such thing as a Dark Elf ('Dunmer' actually), because Azura only made the Chimer into Dunmer after the Tribunal broke their promises.
And as far as I know, the 'Elves' of Tamriel are not Tolkien-Elves, and are not immortal in any way.

Just a little word of warning here, Marxist *astard....while you may think changing another poster's user name to 'Moody Woman' is funny I can assure you that female mood swings are no laughing matter.

*holds up her licence to rip off heads*

See?


:lol:





Regarding dunmer lifespans, aren't telvanni wizards noteworthy for their long lifespans - which would indicate that they are unusual?

Regarding the remains in Tribunal - some of the armour and weapons found would indicate that the wearers were standing guard at the time of their demise.

The odd thing about the ashpiles is that they would indicate that the wearer of the armour has been completely incinerated while armour and weapons remain completely unscathed....spontaneous dwemer combustion?

Yes that's quite obvious; there were several such piles with armour and weapons in Skybreak Gallery (where the weather machine is). But the point is that the armour they were wearing was therefore military or pseudo-military, hence all Dwemer armour can't be 'reverse-engineered' from stripped Centurion parts (except the pauldrons and bracers, those are just cheap ).
Also there are some ash piles under beds (in fact there's one with two ash piles :lol: ), which means that some Dwemer must have been sleeping or...doing something else in bed at the time.

I think the whole idea of Dwemer armour being stripped off Centurions came from the book Chronicles of Nchuleft, where the scientist-commentator notes that the metal hulks of the dusty Centurions have been stripped of the Armour plating. It was NOT "hammered and bent" into the regular Dwemer armour. The Dwemer wore the armour in their military.
You tell 'em, Marxist!

Lorkhan is a dead god, one of the first, mentioned in many books. He is responsible for creating the planet. His heart is the one in the Chamber.

Correct. He was the god that created mortals. The other gods angered by this cast his heart into the plain of which he created.

These are IMHO.



Well after the battle of red mountain Nerevar would want to return to his Outpost/command centre. He was a Dunmer General after all. After you have faught a battle you would want to return to a place away from where the battle took place.



Easy. If you had the oppurtunity to tap the power of a gods heart and make yourself immortal would you pass up the chance. He had oppurtunity <no one else was there> and motive. Why would you want to play second fiddle when you could become immortal and take control? Power corupts.



Well event hough he was a "god" dosent mean he would of had a easy time killing a battle hardend general. Also <correct em if i am wrong> wernt the Tribunal allied with Nerever?



After fighting Nerever he would of being exhausted so why not rest and build an army and wait untill the land of Morrowind was inhabited. In doing so you would have a complete society with no effort of yours being exhausted. <although it would make sense to take over the land whilst there was no leader>



Once again IMHO the Tribuanl and Dagoth Ur had a "pact". Dagoth Ur gets to kill Nerevar and the Tribunal get to use the tools. 2 birds with one stone.



Maybe he did not relise that he needed it? Since he was already immortal and had joined himself to the heart why need it? That and he may of grabbed the wrong one <since there is 2>. As for why being away from the heart and depletion of power I must disagree also. If you could wander from the heart; then why didnt Dagoth Ur move from Red Mountain and go into hiding somewhere where the Tribunal/Temple couldnt find him? Its like life support. Your on that machine and theres only so much cord connecting you. Move to far from the machine and BANG. You be dead

To lend what little clout I have to the "Where does Dwemer armor come from?" argument:

On a hill near Arkenghad(sp) there is a statue of either a dwemer or of a Persian Immortal, they look the same to me <_< . This Dwarf is equipped with a tower shield and a large spear, suggesting that they did not have an entirely construct-based military. Whether this is a statue of a noble, a symbolic guard or of some dwemer god I do not know. If it is a statue of a common guard/soldier, then in all likelyhood some parts of dwemer armor (the cruriass for example) were actually manufactured as armor for humanoid beings and not some construct.

However, while traveling in Arkehnghad I met a kind-hearted fellow named a Steam Construct. After punching me with a fist about the size of the ball on the Ball Centurion, I killed the mechanical monstrosity and got a partial look at him, due to the other 3 centurions forcing me to flee. The construct was probably about as tall as your average sized orc with a standard humanoid body structure, but had a much broader chest, as well as thicker limbs. I believe it is very likely that Dwemer Plate is the armor pried off of these steam constructs, since they are the only construct I know of that seem to be 'wearing' armor over thier humanoid frame.

The statue is of Kagrenac. It's probably just some propaganda to make all the Dwemer engineers look badass and wave a spear in ther Chimers' face.

Ever read the skillbook Chimeravadum?

Ah, it seems that I stand corrected. Not only a description of rank-and-file Dwemer soldiers, but also a distinction between the Dwemer military and the animunculi.

I suppose this shoots down my Steam-construct-armor theory as well. But...assuming that all Dwemer Plate is left over from actual Dwemer grunts, this would imply that when they went 'poof' all their clothes and stuff stayed behind (as that ash-pile thing from the Tribunal expansion suggests) then why do the dwemer ghosts still have clothes? If their trying to reach the material plane from wherever they went off to and they left all their clothes and armor behind on this plane, shouldn't we be assualted by naked, bearded ghosts instead of bearded ghosts in robes?

Well, I never said that the animunculi and jarheads didn't use the same armor. In fact, that very book insinuates that the same smiths that made golems and animunculi also created armor, and that the plans for animunculi are similar to those for armor. That there were even plans for armor also seems to support this.

The Dwarven Spectres are probably just the Dwemer versions of the ancestor ghost -- Dwarves that died before and during the War of the First Council and were therefore not affected by the heart that roam the ruins that were their homes as wraiths.

You are correct there Marxist. Dwarven Specteres are EXACTLY like the dunmer ancestrol ghosts.



I disagree with that.

1: Ghosts will stay here on this plane if they have unfinshed bussiness <gniss eggmione anyone> so one can say that the spectres are guarding somewhing of importance <hence there unfinshed bussiness>. VERY fesible idea.

2: It is my understanding that the Spectre in Tribunal <when you get the "flame" put on Hopesfire <???> died when the heart was struck hence the ashpiles all around him <will in the ruin>. since there is no obvious signs of a "battle" happening in that ruin. That and the War of the First Council from what I can tell happened on Vvardenfell NOT in Mournhold <which was not even a city at this time>.

My 2 cents anyway.

Marxist, how do you know it's of Kagrenac? The same statue is sen throughout the Dwemer ruins on Vvardenfell; wouldn't that insinuate that it might be a statue of their King? (Damnit can't remember his name.. it's in Vivec's account of Red Mountain but I can't remember it)

And cmac by bringing up Chimarvamidium (note spelling ffs) are you trying to say that the steam golems and centurions actually have Dwemer stuffed inside them?? :lol:

The statues look just like a scaled up Dwemer Ghostie, so I would assume the statues were just there to make the dwemer look more powerful. Like the Dragon statue in Ebonheart. It is not a specific dragon, but one of many. The statues are probably not a specific noble or anything, just a regular solider.

Ta'Thalos, nobody is implying that the Centurions have Dwemer stuffed inside them. In the book Chimeravadum, the smith pretends to be a Centurion in order to spy on the Chimer.
Also you have to give that book, as part of a quest, to the Mages Guild quest giver in Ald'ruhn. After she guives it back she mentions that the book was completely useless, hinting that it is not really a true story.
About making armor out of Amniculi, it is completly illogical. Why would you build a Centurion only to take it apart and make armor out of it? On the other hand, the rear of a Dwemer cuirass is kind of odd...

Click here for a very good guide to the Dwemer in general, as well as three theories regarding their dissapearance. I agree with theory number three. Whoever wrote that guide did an awsome job.

To sorta quote the book Chimeravadum: "A Dwemer child of Eight can make? a golum (robot thing) but only an eighth of Dwemer can acuratley mimic a gollum." I know it's really bad <_< . It goes something like that, but Chimeravadum hints or states that the Dwemer did in fact wear armour and only the very skilled could impersonate their own Golums. In all respects, it reminds me of the Mentats from Dune. Men trained in the likeness of machines.

I beleive the Mage Steward in Ald'Ruhn (lazy girl, making me run all over the place) said the book was useless because she's currently studying the centurions. She probably was hoping the book would contain some sort of insight into thier construction, and not be a childrens story about some guy who dresses up as a robot and hoodwinks a bunch of stupid chimer(whatever they are).

Adrian Laguna, I am fully aware of everything you brought up; my comment was a sort of, uh, what do you call those things.. ah yes: a JOKE! <_<

Bad_Skeelz, Dunmer were once Chimer; their skins were turned dark and their eyes red as punishment for what Vivec, Sotha Sil and Almalexia did with the Heart of Lorkhan.

PS: Ancalagon, nice to see a fellow Tolkienite around.

Go to Tel Fyr it is west of Sadrith Mora there is a corpusarium inside. You will find out what it is when you talk to the people who live in Tel Fyr. There is a dwarf the last one in the very back of the corpusarium He has alot of info on the dwemer.

Everyone's met Bagarn. Don't tell us about him... But since you brought him up.....
Bagarn doesn't know why the Dwemer disappeared. He has theories, like when Kagrenac used the tools, he got a result he didn't expect.

I'm not sure if I agree that the Dwemer armor and weapons are made from scrap centurions.

Why is there so much lying around, oh so carefully arranged an tables, in chests, etc?
Perhaps the armor on the statues is of a different type, and when the Dwemer disappeared, so did the armor that was being worn?

I dunno... its late, I'm confused.

Yep go there and first get the book "The Egg of Time" he doubts his story if you tell him about the book. You learn a lot there. If you want to check how the looked alike go to the ruins northwest of Uviriths Grave (2 statues) or check random Dwemer ruins and find ancestral dwarven ghosts - use calm creature and check how he looks.

Here is what I've built up for the events following Red Mountain:

Nerevar orders the disgruntled Dagoth Ur to guard the Profane Tools and leaves to consult with his other councillors. Dagoth Ur stands guard over the Tools, but does not utilize them. They return, and attempt to take the Tools back. Dagoth Ur is confused by the power of the Tools and the Heart, his mind muddled, and he cannot recognize Nerevar. Believing that all other people wish to utilize the tools for personal reasons, he refuses to surrender the tools. Nerevar and his soldiers overwhelm Dagoth Ur, who is carried away into the depths by his kin, who become the Heartwights.

Nerevar is injured, and dies at some point. When and where is unknown. Sotha Sil, ever curious and awed by the Dwemer, investigates the Tools, and discovers how to utilize them.

Dagoth Ur returns later. He does not utilize the Heart in any controlled manner, but taps it by creating Corpus. The Heart's energy is that of pure life, and Corpus is life growing uncontrolled. Through these growths, he utilizes the power, and becomes a god.

Here are my theories on Dwemer technology, the basis of my later report on the Imperial Library:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/sho...rue#Post1820060

Nice Basilisk! Thanks for that nice to see some thread revival that isn't necromancy for once. Very interesting

I think the beauty behind The Elder Scrolls is that much of the history is gapped, leaving fans to ponder what happened, which perhaps inspires TC's or other things.