Yesterday several topics turned into flamefests. The only reason why no strikes were handed out for this unacceptable behaviour is that given the nature of this forum it is understandable that people have strong opinions, and may get carried away. However, in the future such behaviour will not be tolerated, and result in forum strikes.

Let me clarify what is and is not acceptable in the debates forum.


Insults and name-calling:

Calling other posters idiots, numbskulls, SoBs etc is completely unacceptable. If you have to resort to this kind of language you are not contributing to the discussion. If you feel you have to exchange insults with other posters then do so elsewhere - exchange msn addresses, create an irc channel....but do not use the Morrowind Source forums for this.



Accusations of hypocrisy/immaturity

If you feel that someone's opinion is immature, hypocritical or ill-informed and you feel you have to point this out, be prepared to back this up with quotes from their posts. Keep your criticism confined to the poster's opinion as stated in his/her posts rather than attacking the poster's personality.

It is not acceptable to make offensive comments about a poster's age, gender or nationality because you disagree with their opinion.


Provoking a response/responding to provocation

Posting an extremist opinion or being deliberately obtuse is often used in debates to elicit a response. Use this technique with extreme care when posting here - you cannot predict how other posters will respond. People may take a tongue-in-cheek opinion seriously, and reply accordingly. And a heated reply may kick off a flamefest - which we don't want.
If you have a problem with another post and feel that its content is offensive, notify a moderator.



Courtesy

If you did get carried away when posting and posted something you regret later, have the courtesy to apologize. If you caused offense unwittingly - perhaps because you made a remark which was misinterpreted - explain what you meant. As someone stated in another thread - when posting on a forum you don't get any clues as to whether a remark was meant to be humourous, tongue-in-cheek etc. A little civility costs nothing - but goes a long way.





I expect everyone who posts in the debates forum to be mature enough to make the distinction between a poster and his/her stated opinion, and to ensure that their posts are a criticism of the opinion rather than an attack on the poster.

If you post your opinions in this forum, be prepared to have them criticized, examined for flaws and inconsistencies etc, and expect to be asked what information you base your opinions on. I would hope that everyone posting here is mature enough not to take any such criticism personally.


We've had some great debates so far, and it would be a pity if the forum had to be closed because of flame wars.


That's all I can think of at the moment....

[/lecture]

thanks for clearing that one up theta! ^_^

I could have had breakfast in the time it took me to write this!


Anyway - feel free to post what you think is and is not acceptable in the debates forum...and hopefully we'll thrash out a set of guidelines everyone is happy with...

i think u covered pretty much everything, except one:
Try to avoid discussions on Science versus Religion!!
This never gets anyone anywhere, as both sides will stick with their opinion through thick and thin, and usually ends up in a flamewar.

lol yea I agree. Respecting someones point of view is imporatant. You may not agree with it but respect it any way.

You can't disclude it entirely though, it is involved in minor aspects in too many things, religion or lack thereof affects peoples opinions on several issues all the time. It can't be avoided.

What CAN be avoided imo and does the same good is keeping debates well on same track (f.e. the universe topic), not going off topic and making the "religion v.s. science" the main issue at hand and not the topic issue. It understandably can be involved partially due to it entering the topic at hand, but going off topic to that is just pointless I think... :blink:

hmm... whatever you say in that case, just TRY to avoid it if you possibly can.

I think the main reason why the flamefests and flamewars keep on happening is due to the fact that the vast majority of the people here in MWS are teenagers AFAIK. It's only natural, nonetheless sad, that these things occur. So I think that with time, and some admonitions, hopefully they can be reasoned with.

Cheers.

*COUGH* not ALL teenagers are rebellious angry angst-merchants i think a few adults have been known to flame.

angst: a feeling of anxiety, apprehension, or insecurity

Everybody flames under enough provocation. Some people have a lower threshold than do others.

Given certain circumstances going on in peoples lives, thresholds could be at certain times lower than others. Yesterday wasn't a fantastic day for me and having a 104 degree fever didn't help much. So if I acted out of line please forgive me, I hope this kind of thing can be prevented in the future.

How can a topic called 'The Universe' EVER go off-topic?

And I agree that a sense of civility is REQUIRED to have a good debate. If you have to resort to name-calling and insults, you've already lost the argument anyway, and only make yourself look immature and foolish.

Is that a lot, because we here don´t use farenheit, we use celsius instead...
I´m sorry too, I shouldn´t have replied, by doing so I ruined the topic and Theta needed
to lock the topic.
I´m only happy we´ve solved this incident in a civilized manner.

Yeah 104 is high for a fever. It's borderline life-threatening if it stays that elevated for very long. Sometimes people say and do weird things when they're feverish, I get delusional if I run a very high fever. I just hope we can all get along from here on out, since there are some very intelligent people on these boards who I have immense fun trading ideas with.

Yeah 104 is pretty high, but since the other day it fell low enough for me to still get sent to school Thats where I am now.. hehe... I should be typing lines right now

Fahrenheit to Centigrade: C = (5/9) * (F - 32)

104 F = 40 C

Centigrade to Fahrenheit: F = 32 + (9/5) * C

Check out -40 for each of them. B)

You can always derive these if you remember 0 C = 32 F and 100 C = 212 F, the freezing and boiling points of water. (Use the two-point formula for the equation of a line for the derivations.)

Thanks!
40C is dangerous!
Eltiraaz, you say you went to school like that?!

Well, no, they wouldn't let me in school like that. But its dropped considerably and here I am at school now, when I could be in bed sippin on hot chocolate and chiken soup...

The topic was started to discuss the nature of the universe itself, not about everything in it.

Good point about the fever, makes you see things in a different light.

It is perhaps worth noting that I was reading one thread the other day and someone had said something and then noted that they where drunk (or had been up all night or something) and they apologised for any offence. This casued me to read the post in a whole different light and maybe be more forgiving. Worth thinking about putting something like that in posts, it will change how we see the posts people put, not too much detail mind, but enough so we unbderstand if its been a bad day/3 in the morning/ too much coffee etc

Another large perpitrator of flamewar battlegrounds is the RP thread. Simply because people take the actions of others' characters as personal attacks on them. Well quite honestly it's just RPing, people need to wake up and realize this.

Also, not having one character where you pour everything you like about a particular type (i.e. assassin) helps a lot too. Demonstrating RP diversity in character creation certainly makes me less likely to whine about something when it doesn't go my way, that and I can RP a diverse array of characters. It's a small thing when you think about it, having more than one character, but it means you aren't stuck feeling too attached to something purely fictional, if you want to win all the time and not have people complain when you do, go play the game. RPing is a place where you absolutely can't control the will or wishes of others' actions. If they want to do something, they are (within limits) given the opportunity to do so. What a few don't understand is that this might end up in a fight based on characters' differences, and there is always the option to back down or flee.

Knowing when to back down is also pretty essential too. It shows maturity just to let things go and not let anger or the drive to retaliate take you over; plain and simple.

what is considered immature? is piss or crap immature? or a intoxicated monkey on steriods? hell i dont piss people off, well i try not to, and i respect other peoples opinions. But i do it in a "stupid funny" way. If you think im immature, ill stop and be serious and boring about everything....but i like to lighten things up with some "spizzazz", make this forum more enjoyable

One topic that will get nowhere: Macs VS. PCs. That's a never-ending battle.

ok on a new subject.... Untouchable1.....why is this person still allowed to post on this site? I just saw this persons posts on a fable vs. morrowind topic and he has not only hijacked it but also has links to other topics that he has ranted on and done his best to rattle everyones chains on. I don't clame to know what the rules are on posting links to other topics but this seems to me like another form of hijackking. If I am out of line I do applogize in advance for it but I just hate to see people like Untouchable who post hateful messages just to rattle other people chains for fun.

Necromancy'd!

Oh, and this isn't exactly the place to post your complaints. Try the report function next time, as your comments have nothing to do with the thread topic.

Well, since the thread has been brought back to life, I might as well add to it. Morik, they are probably not immature if you're not using them in an immature way [such as saying them every other sentence.] Humour has kept many threads and forums alive, so I'm pretty sure that's not a problem.

Then why didn't you report it, Slaiv?

Humour is fine but bear in mind:-

a) We can't see or hear the way you are saying something. All we have to go on are words on a screen.

Humour that pokes fun at stereotypes is frequently racist, sexist, ageist or genderist. It can be very offensive.

c) I personally have no problem with swear words if used sparingly but not on this forum, please. It would be very unfair if some of our younger members were forbidden access by parents who felt the forum to be a bad influence. I have nothing against vech, fetcher, swit, or n'wah!

Good times...

Guess I forgot...

foul language is for people who have totally lost the plot, if you argue with a person and they start to chomp at the bit you know you have won, for there lack of reasoning has just got up and walked right out the door.
There is no need to swear are insult the person your talking to, infact i find it offensive if a person cant argue with out swearing and personaly they should be well warned and then if they persist they should be banned.
I get angry somtimes when i argue with people thats healthy what isnt is profanity a child could be looking for a advise on a game on these forums, for them to see that kind of language is highly inapropriate and highly imature.
Arnt we sopposed to set an example to young gamers.
If the only example set is beligerance and foul language then how do we expect our children to act any different.
If a child thinks its cool to be bad then penultimatly they wil be bad and at that point we regress as a race not progress.
So if people would be so kind to moderate their language that would be so kind.

funny thing is hypocrosy rules supreme on tes source. Some people will provoke and bite at others and not get in trouble while others do. often, it is sheer discrimination as most of the people who get in trounle are people new to the forum while the ones escaping are members who have been here for a while. If this keeps up, Im going to leave the forums (not totally leave it as i will still download mods but rather not post or text anymore). Also I have seen this flaming be excused as constructive criticism. I hate it when this happens but oh well.

Deal with your delusional assumptions or simply leave, those are your two options. There is no third "whine about things until I get my way" option. Continuing to whine about the things you don't like is only going to get you removed forcefully, at which point you will not even be able to download files from the site.

We've been more than patient with you. Now is the time for you to decide.

So exactly what am I allowed to do and not allowed to do. I read the tes source laws and the main things it says not to do is spam, flame, and use tes source for you own ends. I have never flamed, spamed, and only once used tes source for my own ends. What exactly do you want me to stop doing. If it is within reason, I will listen and obey and in what way am i delusional?

posting a response like that is, well, practicly agreeing with cyronarxes.
which is pretty bad

What, we discriminate with who we punish now? What other things are you going to start throwing around cyro? That we're somehow racist?

I do my best to enforce the rules as do the other moderators. I can only use my own judgement and go by the rules listed here in an attempt at keeping some semblance of order to the place. If someone with 1494 posts calls someone an idiot I'll still punish them the same as I would someone with 5 posts. Just look at Peregrine - he's been here practically as long as I have and I still give him a hard time when he flames people as does Dark0ne. I volunteer some of my own free time each day to dealing with troublemakers here and I don't really appreciate it when people start throwing around untrue accusations of hypocrisy.

Dark0ne in the end is the owner of these forums. If you antagonise him then it's up to him whether he wants to ban you or not. He does pay for this place after all (and no small amount either with the bandwidth guzzled every day). It's not really your place to whine and throw around accusations (which if you really look I think you'll find aren't true) when you get to use this place for free. If you don't like how we do things you can always leave.