Hello all; I've been lurking about for a bit and I have a question.

Last night, I started a new game and wandered around looting tombs and such for a few levels, then started the main quest. When I was going through dialog with Hasphat Antabolis about House Dagoth, he said something to the effect of 'House Dagoth was the Sixth of the Seven Dunmer Great Houses..'

I've played MW off-and-on for over a year and had never noticed this statement, and I thought, wait, *seven* Great Houses? Were there actually seven, as opposed to the six you deal with or hear about in the game, or was that just a mistake on someone's part?

Think about who's saying it. This is the primary candidate for the Chair of Dwemer Studies on Vvardenfell -- of course he'll be more inclined to represent, say, Dwemer-aligned secular Chimer as a major force.

House Indoril
House Dres
House Redoran
House Hlaalu
House Telvanni
House Dagoth
House Dwemer

I'm not too sure about the order, but that's seven houses right there. I know, this confused me too until I learned about House Indoril and House Dres from reading books and stuff, they're unmentioned and have no claims on Vvardenfell.

RAIDER is correct those are the seven great house's. Presently when you are playing the game their are only 5 great house's from what i have gathered. Long before then there was the civil war within the great house's and House Dagoth and House Dwemer. However house Dwemer was not Dumner they where the Dwemer. The Dwemer are wiped out during the war and so are the Dagoth House untill they return and so on so forth. The other two house are located in the other parts of morrowind which does not include Vvardenfell which is just one part of Morrowind which takes up the North Eastern coast of the mainland. In all honesty The Elder Scrolls III should have been called Vvardenfell not Morrowind.

Vvardenfell doesn't give the box designers the same oppurtunity for a stylized Roman numeral three as the "W" in Morrowind.

House Indoril - Religious zealots, and the first of two warrior houses, The second most powerful house.

House Dres - Slavers, and farmers.

House Redoran - Very similar to house Indoril, though not as powerful. The Second of two warrior houses, also very religious.

House Hlaalu - The merchants house, has accepted the Empire and the armistice, Now driven into corruption, and filled to the brim with outlanders. Unfortunately, is also the most powerful house now.

House Telvanni - The Sorcerors house, Very misunderstood people, due to their reclusiveness. Extremely atheist.

House Dagoth - The Sixth house, now understood to be a house of madmen and beasts. Alas, it was not always that way, the only surviving *real* sixth house member is Lord Dagoth Voryn (Dagoth Ur's real name), the rest are cultists and beasts, attracted by the Divine Heart of Lorkhan only. The real house was destroyed millenia ago, for it's apparent betrayal.

House Dwemer - The Atheist Mechanics, also destroyed, but no-one knows how.

Minor Houses -

House Sotha - Sotha Sil's house, based at Ald Sotha, now completely destroyed somehow. Sotha Sil is the only remaining member.

House Mora - also gone, possibly via marriage into the other Houses.

What about the ash vampires?

It's too hard to tell.

All the reports surrounding this are all wrong in some places and right in others, but we don't know which. Sometimes the Ash Vampires are recorded as House Dagoth members, sometimes they aren't mentioned at all, as a result, it's difficult to fathom what the origins of the Ash Vampires actually are, since no-one can siphon out the truth from the lies.

Either they are original 6th House members, or they are just Dagoth Ur's first set of cultists. There is no sufficient evidence to prove or falsify either claim. I just guessed that they weren't, since most reports suggest they were not with Dagoth Ur when he was corrupted, and other reports testify to the absolute destruction and subsumation of House Dagoth, save for the one member sleeping under Red Mountain, but they could be wrong, I don't know.

What seems to be the only thing we do know for certain about the ash vampires is that they are unnaturally old -- IE, predating the eruption.

From what you can gather, I tend to assume that the ash vampires are either Dagoth Ur's brothers or councilors of the fallen House Dagoth.

Found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Dagoth seems a good summary, also they were all ( including House Dwemer) known as the Chimer.

They became the Dunmer after they broke their oath (on wich Nerevar insisted) to Azura when Vivec , Amalexia and Sotha Sil used the tools to become "living gods".

Azura decided that their shame should show on their faces or somesuch, and they became the Dunmer.

Notice that Vivec is only half "dun" does that mean he feels partially responsible? And Amalexia's little slap-me-please face is all golden...

Marxists post deleted.

Take the attitude somewhere else.

The common interpretation is that it represents his dual nature.

After reading that bit on the House Dagoth on Wikipedia, I searched some of the links that they offered. One of them, 'Morrowind', gave a lot of information about the game, but when I went down to the part about Politics, it says this:

The Five Great Houses of Morrowind, Indoril, Telvanni, Redoran, Hlaalu, and Dres (as well as the destroyed House Dagoth), and the Tribunal Temple, are the major political organizations of Morrowind.

Just wondering if they got the wrong information, or what.

No, that would be right. There used to be seven Great Houses but since Dwemer and Dagoth are gone, currently there are just those five. The Tribunal Temple is a big player too. Not sure the bit about House Dagoth is right, at least not by the end of TES III.

I went on Wikipedia at school and was reading up on the houses (ha ha! The school cant block wikipedia- I have beat WebSense!) and I think it was saying something about the house Dren being absorbed into the Tribunal Temple or something like that. Anyways, I had never paid much attention to the whole Great House thing before and I find it absolutly fascinating.

No, that never happened. House Dres was never absorbed into the Temple. Their views are actually incompatible with the Temple's.

Wikipedia is not a credible source -- not even for something as trivial as video games. I would suggest that Adras cede to the wisom of his elders and stop looking at Wikipedia as being anything other than a site where trolls exchange talking points.

*Bows* I shall do so and start using the Imperial Library, o wise one.

Anyways, like I said, I wasnt too sure about it, but it provides good reading material during school. I will have to test to see if the Imperial Library is ok with Websense, and if it is, then I will be happy.

I went to the link that was up for wikpedia and it actually had the imperial library as a referance, and also linked a few of its articles to imperial library......Not saying wikpedia is credible just saying you would think if they arent then the sources they use are just as uncredible....you would think.

The lack of credibility doesn't stem from its references; it stems from the editors. Observe:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/12/16

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=31627781

Adras, never bow down to anyone. I said that I found the wikipedia reference a good summary I may add that this was after reading through the Imperial library myself and not feeling like typing a concise summary myself.

According to the Imperial Library (where 'The Poison Song' by Bristin Xel is listed under fiction and or educational morrowind books, which certainly leaves it open to interpretation by the player as to wether it is fiction or not)and certainly the game Morrowind which I have been playing on a daily basis for three and a half years now, House Dress orphans from the Battle of the Red Mountain were in fact absorbed into House Indoril. House Indoril supplies the Temple with guards and such hence the Temple guards wearing Indoril armour and so on.

And Im not saying this is fact, it sounds propable and is supported by lore and probably deliberately left open to discussion and this would also be a summary. As for Wikipedia make up own mind.

http://til.gamingsource.net/mwbooks/poisonsong.shtml

Edit the next day: You are right Raider, I apologise to Marxist Bastard for calling names. And though I know flattery gets one nowhere with Marxist, it is a certain fact that in all things technical I would happily bow down to his obvious expertise.
I bring up The Poison Song as an example for the premise that orphans of war would be absorbed into other houses, and my reference to Dres(s because I wear one) is accidental and meant to be Dagoth. Thank you for the correction. Yes it concerns the sixth house or Dagoth and Indoril and not Dres, but illustrates what could happen. And where better for young impresionable minds than House Indoril, where indoctrination would be easiest, and they would ultimately serve the Temple. Any orphans too old, would be killed, and this occurs in our history too. The women of your enemy becomes your slave and his children you raise as your own.

All things written are from the perspective of the writer, and very few writers are objective.Wikipedia's value for me lies in the fact that it includes many perspectives and not the dictates of one. Certainly anyone who contributed would guard their own comments from defilement by idiots, and if someone as acute and dilligent as Marxist contributes to that knowledge base it could only improve. Again MB this is not flattery but simply a fact. As for the meaning of my name, I think I saw a thread somewhere for that...

I believe this is the section in question:



I see no mention of House Dres (or "House Dress," as you seem to like calling them) in the text, specifically. The name isn't even brought up. In fact, I think there's enough context here to make the case that the orphans in question are only the ones from House Dagoth, and likely also the Dwemer sympathizers. Secondly, it is stated that the orphans are distributed among all the houses -- not just House Indoril, and not directly to the Temple at all. Furthermore, for House Dres to be absorbed into House Indoril or the Temple in this manner, all members of House Dres would have to have been orphaned children. Lastly, House Dres is indicated as being alive and well in all Morrowind dialog concerning it; not even a passing reference is made to a "lost" House Dres, and the fact that there are five houses is completely undisputed.

The fact of the matter is that Wikipedia is not a credible source. At all. Not even for video games, and not even when the facts are laid out right in front of its contributors. That's far from the worst part, too -- the worst part is that since they don't even do rudimentary checks on who changes what, I don't even know who I can blame for wasting everyone's time with this idiocy.

As for your rather toothless insult, I always say it's better to be a halfbreed (even if that were applicable; you should try looking up the definitions for the words you use) than a halfwit, I always say.

I find it rather unlikely that House Dres was absorbed into the Tribunal Temple, simply because people who chat about abolition and slavery mention that slavery is still big in Telvanni and Dres districts. I don't think they would mention it if Dres no longer existed.

No need for name calling, guys. Break it up.

Quite so. Let's keep this thread civil please. I've already had to intervene once.