This topic has been created to discuss the poll below on TESSource.net.

Will Bethesda make an Elder Scrolls MMORPG in the future?

Almost definately. They'd be stupid not to

Not a chance

Probably

Unlikely

I think it's unlikely, unless they have a change in management at Bethesda and they turn into another one of these "quick buck" companies like EA. Which can happen all too quickly nowadays. But even if that happens, they've stuck with single player RPGs thus far and made a mint.

Basically so long as they can keep the quality level up with their RPGs I don't think they'll go into MMORPGs. But I could be wrong.

As saturated as the MMORPG market is there is still a niché yet to be filled. That's an MMORPG that can provide a realistic real-time fantasy-FPS. Look at Everquest, Guild Wars, WoW and the other fantasy MMOs out there and they all have something in common; 3rd person is the best view and it's a round-based combat system.

If a developer could make an MMORPG that had CS style FPS action using swords and magic in a persistent-world akin to EQ2 and WoW then they'd be on to a serious winner in my opinion.

I used to play an online game called Magestorm made by Mythic (now known for Dark Age of Camelot). It's 10 years old now with Doom-like graphics but it had the best gameplay and community of any game I've ever seen. Wikipedia Page. Unfortunately very few people play it now; but back in the day when there used to be 450+ people online at any one time it was a blast.
Imagine DoD team-based fights using magic. It was amazingly innoventive at the time and I know of no game to recreate such a style of play.

A very brief run-down:

There are 4 classes:

- Cleric (Most HP. healer, buffer, walls and minor damage spells)

- Mentalist (Average HP. Psionic damage spells, flying, lightning orbs and later on huge lightning bolts)

- Arcanist (Higher than average HP. Proximity mine type spells, mana sucking spells and higher-than average damage spells)

- Wizard (Least HP. Major area-effect damage spells and minor walls)

Each map has 3 teams; Red (Chaos), Green (Balance) and Blue (Order) and each has their own shrine. The shrine is where you spawn and if destroyed you cannot respawn unless a healer resurrects you. Shrines are destroyed by standing in them for ~8 seconds. Each turn in the shrine will destroy a certain percentage of the shrine depending on your class, or none at all, all based on a behind-the-scenes roll. Destroyed/Damaged shrines can be rebuilt by team-members doing the same thing as if destroying.

Players have 4 important attributes; Health, Mana, Mana Regen Speed and Fatigue. To run and cast spells you need fatigue. Health is affected by your stamina and your Mana is affected by differing attributes. Your mana regen is affected by special mana pools dotted around the map if you're a mage, by your proximity to your shrine if you're a Cleric, by your total time spent in a Mana pool if you're an Arcanist or, if your a Mentalist, your mana regen is kept at a constant rate of about 65%.

The aim of the game is to destroy your enemy's shrines and then kill off the teams while keeping yours up. Winner is the only team that has a 100% powered shrine up for (I think) 30 seconds. Maybe 60.

Maps are 30, 40 or 50 player depending on the map and it's size. You play in level ranges. 1 - 15, 10 - 20 or 10 - 30 (with a few inbetween like 1 - 7 if people want to be dicky).

Experience is earnt for hitting enemies with spells (1xp point for every point of damage you cause), killing enemies (xp depends on the enemy's level compared to yours) and capping mana pools/destroying enemy shrines for your team. You also get double XP if your team wins the round. Sounds easy to get XP, but the level caps are rather large after level 15 or so and you'll spend about 20 hours between each level after level 15.

Characters can level up to level 30 and each time make a spell pick out of 4 different spell trees. At level 30 you can only have about half of the spells so there's variation within the classes. If you come up against a Mage you don't know what to expect; he could be a Fire/Ice Mage who specialises in AoE fire spells and Ice Walls or an Earth/Fire mage who specialises in Wind spells and Fire Bolts.

Now most of that rambling is just notalgia and you need only think about a FP-sword and magic type MMORPG or squad-based game.

for the guys who voted likely or theyd' be stupid if not...blablabla
it doesnt say "would you want bethesda to make a mmorpg"
the most asked question on forums sites or whatever else is
"will there be multiplayer?" its one of the questions that are always the best answered by simply
"no and never will be"
so i say theres no chance in hell they'll ever make one.

Not likely. The MMORPG market is already a very crowded one, and Bethesda's strength is in single-player rpgs. It makes very little sense to abandon their successful single player games and waste resources on a MMORPG that probably won't gain any significant market share anyway.

Money talks, and sooner or later some marketing bastard straight from the zoo is going to say "What do you have to lose?This is the trend right now blablabla" And he'll use words like 'recurring income'.

And someones going to listen to the money talking. Everyone has their price.

I'm at heart a single player, and though I do enjoy the ocassional exploration of online gaming, I really do prefer not having all those other souls polluting my (gaming ) universe. I simply like the idea that this game exists because I do.

I dont play games because I want to get to know people, I play because I can get away from people. I'm over exposed to people in real life as it is, and this helps me deal with that.

So Bethesda may somewhere try and dip a toe into the MMORPG thing, lord knows theyre not above cashing in on something popular, does any one remember Pirates of the Carribean? Has anyone managed to actually play it? The camera sway tended to make me sea sick. Hell they even have games for your cell phone and palmtop!

But so far they do seem to stick to their guns as far as The Elder Scrolls series is concerned, and should a mmorpg be in the future I'm not certain that it would be in the Elder Scrolls. But theyd probably try it.

I hope they survive it.

Very unlikely. Bethesda is good at single player rpgs, and they shouldn't "try" to make a mmorpg, because the series is great as single player, changing that could ruin bethesda's reputation of good one player rpgs.

Let them do what they are good at, instead of doing a different style and risking a less good game, because there is no reason to take the risk.

NO WAY, they are good at making single player RPGs. They would never waste their valuable time on the next elder scrolls on a MMORPG.

If they do, then they have sold their souls to the great satan.

MMORPGs suck anyway.

Actually, I doubt it. What the money is going to be saying is "stick with what you do best". Like I said, the MMORPG market is a crowded one. Any attempt to enter it is going to be risky, and involve a large investment of time and money. It's only made more of a risk by the fact that Bethesda has no experience with an MMORPG (or any multiplayer game, really). Or by Bethesda being on the small end of game developers and not having a staff to devote to it without disrupting work on their other projects.

On the other hand, their single player rpgs have a devout following, and as long as the quality isn't horrible they're going to sell in mass numbers. The best choice from a purely financial perspective is to get to work on the next Elder Scrolls game, not delay it by diverting all their resources to an MMORPG project.

Personally, I think that the major power in MMORPG at the moment has to be Blizzard with World Of Warcraft. Speaking from the perspective of someone who plays both Morrowind & WoW I have to say that even though they fall under the title "RPG" they are worlds apart.
Morrowind I believe was an underground legend but for Bethesda to start with an MMORPG now, might be a little late, the money, manpower & time required to make Oblivion Multiplayer are...insane. 3 Years in the making? Another 2 for the Multiplayer scripts?
Besides, Morrowind remains the best RPG iv ever played.

All these ppl who want a Morrowind MMORPG aren't realizing that the vast & rich story lore & personal interaction with the whole world of Tamriel comes from the fact that it is a single player game .... the whole of Vvardenfell is set up & waiting there for you to trigger it. No one else - except NPCs/creatures - altering your gaming experience.
With MMORPGs, the lore is set up in the beginning - but then goes out the window as multi-players interact with each other & the game. PVP often happens, stealing of kills or drops, bad behavior in groups, etc., etc. There are always bad apples in the crowd that find some way to cheat or ruin gaming experience for others. Arena, Daggerfall, Redguard, Morriwind & Oblivion are free of that interference & I am as happy as Matze-swilling Guar about that!
Also, Morrowind has the friendliest, together online community of any game I have known - single or multi player. So it somehow feels almost like an online game, it is such a shared experience.

As Switch says, Bethesda are more into doing what they think is GOOD, rather than making a fast buck, and that is single player RPGs. However, if they consider it to be a GOOD idea, they certainly could not be accused of trying to make said "fast buck", as the financial outlay for such a project is so immense that it has bankrupted several companies that have tried and failed.

I think that when Oblivion has been on the market for some time, and they see if it has a broader appeal* than Morrowind, they will be able to consider the option more closely.

Fingers crossed!

*Morrowind has only been really successful in English-speaking countries, but the Oblivion marketing campaign is stretching much further afield. That and XboX 360 should give it the extra oomph that it needs to break into a more international market....

I think not, considering how poorly the Star Wars MMORPG has done in comparison to WoW or EQII, I doubt Beth will try to edge into that market, especially if they have to go up against two games who've established their domination some time ago. Essentially, if you're the king of RPG's, why risk your neck in an area that you've no control nor Kingship over?

Added, I've played EQII for a while (i'm off of it now), and I can honestly say that I cannot imagine Bethseda taking the Elderscrolls to online. There's too much story and depth that would be sacrificed (both of which are hallmarks in all Elderscroll games) for sake of mass appeasement. That was one of the turn offs for me with EQII. If Beth did that, they'd have to put all their resources into it. You'd could kiss off any chance of having a SP RPG come out in the near future, since they'd be focusing on server updates, and bug fixes, etc. all the problems that come with running an MMORPG.

never it would be cool but they wont make one if they did o it should not be TES it should be independent

I doubt that they will and it would never be as good as the single player games because now we have tight story-lines with the only interaction being between the player & NPC's. With MMOPG's, loose storeylines or more like specific worlds with specific zones & rules are created & then all the game variation revolves upon the multi-players' interactions with each other.
Two entirely different things....not compatible in my opinion. I am a great fan of MMORPG's & play many but I would not have my solo experience Bethesda enjoyments sullied by oafish other players. If that's snobbery, so be it!

And I must take exception with the judgement above that WAR was a leader in MMORPG's atm.... in my judgement I see the cutting edge going on right now to be the free online Guild Wars & the remarkable revolution it has stirred up in some previously pay-by-the-month games who've now GONE FREE .... Anarchy Online has a 1 year free subscription, Shadowbane has gone totally free & I think there are a few others. Some people are now paying for armor/weaps at websites for the always free = FatherofAllOnlineGames = Diablo. I am glad to see this turn of events .... we even had our fascination at its beginning with Project Entropia which was free online but where you paid real life money for every game item. Had enough of that wallet bleeder!

Considering the mottos on their website I believe it highly unlikely. MMORPGs are nothing at all like RPGs, as most of us clearly know, as they have their own unique set of problems still rampant in even the great game guildwars which I own and love. They would lose that motto and no longer have the same direction in their development. However... considering that Microsoft is now their butt-buddy... I definently think it possible. I think we are seeing the begining of the end of Bethesda.

Doubtful, if only because the game engine isn't built for it. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't because of the technical issues involved.

making an MMO would require a total change of the game mechanics as atm if we look at oblivion there is no balance at all between the different types of chars you can create. like mage is the only viable chartype atm if we look at it MP wise. the gameworld itself would for sure be teh uber for an UO like MMO but with the current charsystem its simply not possible, everyone would play pure mage and everyone who dares to try something else would instantly get the floor wiped with his ass all the time he meets a semi-decent mage.
i mean casting while running.....yea right
the mana regen is a joke also, in some MMO´s your fatique doesnt even regen that fast
also the way you control your char in OB doesnt fit too well for an MMO as OB combat is kinda like playing an FPS. (in good MMO´s your stats decide if your attack gonna miss or not, in OB you´d just get 100 acrobatics and hardly ever gonna get hit again)

I am definitely in favor of bethesda doing MMORPG because in my opinion it will ruin the experience in the single player game. But, it would be nice if there was a way to import players from the game and take others 1 on 1 in an arena like place. Not massive, but tiny ORPG.

Thieves, imagine breaking into a house and finding another thief already in there, another human theif. Will you attack, possibly bringing attention to your own acts when the homeowner wakes up? Will the other player attack you? Will you offer to work together, splitting the loot? Or perhaps it is one specific item you are each after...or maybe he's willing to trade?

Mages, imagine the guild possibilities. Spell research among real thinking players. Or perhaps your better schooled magician can train my lower one...for a price. Or maybe together with a few friends you can open a branch by building a Guild Hall in a town that is currently without guild representation.

Warriors, imagine being overwhelmed by unleveled enemies, when suddenly you see other playes rushing into the scene. Will they help you? Will they help finish you off? Perhaps the enemy will like them less, or percieve them as more of a threat, and leave you alone...

Modders, imagine an ever growing world, with new continents to build on in real time with a construction crew.

What would happen if hundreds of players formed a 'clan' and tried to unify all commerce through themselves, like a mob. A real rebellion would have to form to remove them. Assassins could be hired to dispatch the key members of the group...if they could get by the counter intelligence that collection has available. Maybe someone on their side is willing to expose a weakness.

Alliances, we've seen, are sometimes the best and most unpredictable part of reality TV. Even the best AI cannot replace the widest array of human interaction, currently. In single player games, ideas or scenes such as these must be scripted out. Since the possiblities are endless, and scripting is not, it can never be completely convincing. I think multiplayer would be great, especially if we combineed it with mod ability. Imagine server lists like UT2004, each with it's own prefered mods...custom mods that the writer runs exclusively. I think it is more possible to do with validity than some folks think.

You've just outlined the best MMORPG there could ever be. However I think you've just outlined the project brief of every MMORPG that has already been made.

I'm against them doing an MMO because there are so many out there already, how could an Elder Scrools one be different? Also, Elder Scrolls is indeed all about character creation in an offline environment, as many people have said before.

If you like the idea of all the stuff you outlined Alanador, try Eve Online if the sci-fi setting doesn't put you off. The gameplay, once you join a corpoation (guild) and get to a fairly middle/high level, is precisely what you laid out in your post. I was hastled by various mob corporations for a slice of my mining profits, had large fleet battles with those mobs to get back my profits... Had people turn up just as I've finished a beggar of a battle to steal all the good loot Brilliant, if you like the sci-fi setting of it.

In my travels the other night I came across an open source MMORPG called "PlaneScape". Open source as in open to contribute, free to download, and free to log on and play in a persistant world. The screenies I saw compare to Morrowind, but I have yet to see the game in action, as the version I got was not the current, but only a 300 Mb download! It is set in medieval times. I'm not sure about all the details but I'll provide a link to it HERE so anyone interested can check it out. Brilliant idea, though I wonder about the too many cooks syndrome...but hell, did I mention it's free? . As for Oblivion, one of the biggest pros for single player is the lack of server hacks...which was a downer for some online games. But a guy can dream cant he...?

I played that game it is really crappy compared to other top MMORPG's such as WOW, GW and EQ2. Maybe will be much more better 2-3 years later. Screenies may look good but the animations are really bad.

Thanks for helping me dodge a bullet on that one, think of the Oblivion time I might have squandered away on another game!! While I'm back in this thread, I was just at another thread and now see a slight conflict of theories about Bethesda and money...and that they would never succumb to the idea of creating something just for money. Er...horse armor anyone? Please allow me to speak my mind on that aspect for a moment if you will...

How many of these mods on this site alone are true fixes? Sure...I know we haven't gotten the first patch yet...but should we even be expecting to wait? It's like buying a car missing a few 'pieces' that are either absent or inferior. Why as a consumer have we rolled over on this issue to the point where we now expect to recieve a game that has obvious omissions, inaccuracies, and outright lazy programing. A clear example is the hunting Mod...which fixes the opacity of the lion pelt, which was set to true from what the author of this mod states. That's a pretty glaring omission, or oversight as it may be. Or how about the LOD handling which could have been done more efficiently? In essence what I'm saying is that we mod for many reasons, to enhance, change, and in some cases to wipe the a** of the lazy programmer who missed one of his responsiblities. Now, the piracy topic is mute, yes they have the right to charge, and no we shouldn't steal. BUT, I may make some horse armor of my own just to see it in the game as a free add on. I was very discouraged by this development. What will Bethesda do for money? I'm starting to wonder about that and only time will tell. Their single player experience is in some sense a short cut in programming, much more focus can be paid to the game since the aspect of multiplay will not have to be coded. Maybe more of a trade off than a short cut, but you can see my meaning I hope. Sorry to rant Incidentally, incorporating multiplay can help to curb piracy...think of UT2004, you could run your own server and games, but you had to connect to a master server to broadcast your game, pirates could play with other pirates, but not the entire community. For the 40.00 price tag it was well worth it to have access to hundreds, maybe thousands, of running human targets....hehehe.

I'll second that recommendation... EVE has vastly more player-controlled content than any other MMORPG I've seen, and comes pretty close to what you're talking about. You have mining players giving materials to player-run manufacturing corporations that build most of the items (and all the advanced-technology stuff), which get distributed by human merchants and shipping corporations (who might have to hire player-flown escorts to protect against player-run pirate gangs). Then it gets used by player-run alliances to fight wars over territory. At least half the game map is entirely player-run, with no laws or NPC guidance.

It's really the game that convinced me that the problem with MMORPGs isn't the concept itself, it's the poor execution of that concept in the overwhelming majority of games.

I prefer single player rpgs due to various reasons but heres just a few i can think of.


Multiplayer drawbacks:

When a server gets filled up it can get pretty laggy and crowded.

It's a bit annoying when you spend all your energy trying to wipe out an enemy only to have someone who was previously hiding in the shadows come and deliver the final blow or steal the items then say something stupid like 'i just pwned you n00b zomg hahaha'.

The fact you have to use a specified bank to store your good due to the likelyhood of you losing things if you store them in a house.

Single player gold:

Being able to enjoy a peaceful walk across the countryside with minimal contact with npc's.

Being able to own your own property.

Lot more variety to quests.

Better rewards.

I hope not, after getting absorbed into WoW for a year I don't really like the idea of getting hooked on another rpg which demands so much time in order to be good at it.

As much as I'd love to pwn you all with my uber main, I seriously doubt that Bethesda would bother, seeing that it would be impossible to maintain the depth of character development that they have in their single-player RPG's, and that commercially they are doing fine right now, so moving away from their specialty seems illogical.

Having to deal with lag, newbs, chatboxes, and running around and killing stuff is not a good way to go for TES. I cannot see any benefit in creating a MMORPG out of the series, precisley for the same reasons I have been turned off from EQII. It takes WAY to much time, ends up becoming repetitive (grinding so you can play with the big boys), and you loose out on social life and sleep. It's cool to play if you have some friends on line too, but I can think of 100 other things I'd rather do than sit inside all day participating in a never-ending cycle.

I echo peregrine's sentiments. It's the poor execution of concept that is the problem with most mmorpgs, coupled with the limitation to either combat or crafting in play style. I recall hearing about the old version of Star Wars Galaxies and the myriad of gameplay choices in it, but SOE in some eyes "dumbed" it down with the new updates.

My point is, there's just a lack of quality games out there; most mmorpgs get bogged down with combat and grapics and miss or leave out the important background and char developmental stuff that single player RPGS like TES manage to cover and execute so well. As a result I care more for Tamriel than I do for Norrath, at least Tamriel itself is interesting and wrapped with lore.

I think that if they just released a quick mod for allowing client connection to a server in oblivion to make a mmo, it would be great!
i mean, the game is done, just a bit of tweaking would make it an amazing mmo..

Yeah, that would be great. If only my completely unrealistic ideas could come true also!

It's never going to happen. It's not even close to a "quick mod" to add multiplayer to Oblivion. The entire game is designed to track a single player, not multiple ones. You'd have to re-write almost the entire game engine, keeping only the visual parts. For example...

Every single quest is based around a single person completing it. You'd have to scrap all of it and start over, eliminating the entire storyline in the process.

The conversation system and minigames (as well as opening the menu, etc) all pause the game. This is not possible when you have multiple people involved.

The world is nowhere near large enough. Within a day of release, every item would be collected and every killable NPC would be dead. You'd have to instance 95% of the world to get around this, defeating the entire purpose of a MMORPG.

There is no chat system, only pre-scripted conversations. You'd have to include this. Same with PC trading.



In short, Oblivion would suck as a MMORPG. The only halfway sane option is to build an entirely new MMORPG, keeping the same general setting.

LOL the requirements will be a mother load if oblivion became a MMORPG, its true bethesda has a good nich market in this single player game, but the idea of getting more money makes people do strange things, Im sure some of you can agree.

Most Unlikely.

Like Peregrine said



PLUS you would have to rest to increase your lvls... What would happen then? You cant force EVERYONE to rest.. this would make time passing... err well??

Nah, won't buy it, I would keep playing Guild Wars ... ^^

UNLIKELY

I think i read something on the official site like "we think ther's still much to be done with RPGs, so we won't be doing MMO", and I think it was Todd Howard saying that...

But if they wanted to make a MMORPG, even set in the ES setting, well they could: imagine a MMORPG set on...Akavir!Now that would be something! There are unkillable NPCs (like that tiger dragon), there is only minimum lore, so they could let the player run it, the factions are already defined (demons, snake-people, tiger-people, and ape-people), it is more or less independant from Tamriel (there have been connections, but few, and never for long).

Well I think Bethesda won't be doing that, because they have a gold mine already opened and far from being fully exploited (Tamriel), so they won't bother to try digging somewhere without being sure they'll get something out of it...

ya i think its unlikly but they have a mod that u can play online not so much tho it is kind of bad