I've been thinking- in a few years, videogames will be most likely be dead. That's right - no more Zelda, Mario, Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls, or Warcraft....

Let me explain - We've flooded the market. We rushed too fast. Graphics are soon coming to their hight -where they can get no better. Same with physics and sound. They're reaching their heights, also.

Microsoft's XNA shows this. They're trying to make a game platform [not console] with the best graphics and phsyics available. They're doing this because games are beginning to cost millions of dollars. With this, the developers only have to pay a small fee to licence the XNA engine with the physics and graphics already done, so they just have to make the game. With this technology, there can pretty much be only one of each type of game. Sure, there can be continuations of games, with different storylines; and exceptions, if a company is sad enough to make a bad football game, then another can make a better game. The game type will still be limited, as will the skill put into making the games...

But, truly - I think, that in a few years, videogames will die.

Just something to think about....

BLASPHEMEY!!

umm ok sorry, reflexes... gotta work on that.

Oh ok I see... Well you may be right, Things are awfuly going fast. You could be right, you could be wrong. Although videogames may die out, I have to wonder, did those who came before us, people whose technology pailed in comparison, beleive that they would soon hit a wall and go as far as they could go? Even though we as humans feel we are in a new age of technology in which advances in everything are being made, there could be more. All I'm saying is that there is so much we haven't discovered, so much thats out there. Just think, We've prooved that there is a MASSIVE expanse around us with millions of planets and stars, Would it be probable that we are the only ones existing in it? Could there be something more that we dont know about?

It is the curious nature of humans that has got us this far, and will get us farther I beleive. If videogames die out because of a technological "brick wall", then what wall would the human race hit next?

Opinions expressed in this post are those of the FB, and no one else.

Those of you who watch Red Dwarf may be familiar with the concept of total immersion videogames and artificial reality.... a logical next step in the entertainment industry?

I think we need to look back into time when the U.S. Patent Office closed. They said "Everything that will ever be invented has already been invented." That was before computers, video games, and even the wedgeless underwear!

Ok, I don't really get deep theories, but I do believe that videogames will be here forever in one form or another, like Theta said, artificial reality, VR games, stuff like that could be the next level of videogames. I wouldn't mind playing BFV with a VR set. Plus, there will always be someone to make a new videogame, even if it isn't a new story, it's a new game.

There is always one kind of games that several companies are using, when BF 1942 came out, suddenly, it was great to make online FPS games, MMORPG's will always be there to suck money out of you, since most games like that are based on fantasy worlds, there is no limit to how much you can come up with in that kind of games.

I believe videogames will never get lost, when one game gets really old compared to new technology, some company will probably come up with an idea to make the game(or atleast the idea) in a new way. I agree many games are just simple copies of old ones, but once and a while, there comes some great game that beats most in it's kind, videogames won't leave, not for a long time.

Several points here, each is seperated.

Concept of total immersion video-games: Won't happen for a while. WE WILL get there, but it's too far off for us to make the leap from where we are now to the point where this is not only possible, but commonplace.

video games die out: HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST SUCH A THING!!!! if nothing else, there will be the cult gamers out there who make and release video games just for their own hobby. Roguelike games are a good example. (All hail Darkgod!!!)
I wont make any apologies for what i said here, because video games can never be truly dead. Take a look at the success emulation sites have had! People will still play atari 2800 games on their PC, and other systems such as the older Nintendo ones, as well as the genesis systems are also still around. People will always play video games.

The production may decline for a while with some producers being merged with another, or just going belly-up, but video games will always be around... i mean, what else would those of us without a significant other do with our spare time, Huh?

Gone as far as we can: NEVER! For the human race, there is no limit to how far we can go. There is always something new that we can do. And people who say that we wont get any farther in technology are just plain wrong. People said we wouldnt fly either, but how many of us have been in the air lately? People said we couldnt go to the moon, but... wait, bad example... (we didnt go there...) We have faced a technological barrier several times in the past, and we always manage push through and advance further.

The idea of never having new video games is also absurd. If you believe this, then you are basically saying "All the ideas have been exhausted, we're at a dead end"
Therefore, consider this: "There wont be any more books, people already wrote about every possible topic imaginable"
Now go sit in a corner and consider just how absurd your thinking is. (LITERALLY! This whole idea is RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!)

As far as playing old games goes, I still play StarCraft, which is what... 6 years old now? In fact, me and my cousin still play with each other every weekend. Why? StartCraft wasn't that revolutionary, so why play it? Because its something that we can do together that both our Crappy computers can run it. Even if video games do lose their 'edge' people like me and my cousin will play them because they are still fun.

Lets not forget the editors for games too. As long as games like morrowind have editors there will be someone out there with a great idea, who has the skills to make an old game intiresting again.

Let me clarify - of course there will still be video games. I guess I said it wrong. But I mean, they won't really go anywhere. Once we hit virtual reality, where can we go next? There's really nothing more immersive than VR.... Not really anywhere to go then....

Reality?

Heh, maybe I'm having A HHGG moment but we may be able to create planets one day. These planets will have manufactured creatures, "NPCs" and towns. HAhahaHAHahHA!!!

The only problem might be multiple lives…

I'm so brilliant.

Hey, I'm down with Uber's idea...

As long as I get to create my own planet. A skatepark the size of Jupiter...... with Kid mode turned on.

*Drools*


Still, Virtual Reality will be expensive. Probably not able to be put into home consoles - strictly arcade, maybe.

On the side, Nintendo realises this. That's why they're making the Revolution - they know that graphics and phsyics are at their peak, and that they really can't get any better. So they're making new ways to play, like with the DS - touch screen, microphone, two screens, wireless, etc....

True, seeing as Bioware has licenced the Unreal 3 Engine [most beautiful thing I've ever seen.... beats Half Life II in graphics and physics].....

Well, they were fun while they lasted - still, I hope Nintendo can do something....

Hopefully gameplay will be more important in the future than the graphics then.

It's not for Dragon Age. They haven't announced the game yet. Just that they have licenced the engine. They're making their own for DA.

Bioware Announcement
IGN Article

I don't remember where I read that it was for Dragon Age, maybe I just misunderstood... I thought it sounded a little weird, since I had already seen screenshots and everything... Anyway, if Bioware is working on yet another game that's only for the better! I can not say this too many times; BioWare is the company that keeps me up when things are tough! So, Slaiv, any gossip or rumours on this secret project X?

EDIT: It was Euro-RPG... they posted this in their news-section 22 sep.:

Firstly, Game play will never die... I still play Chrono Trigger... That game is almost 15 years old... (i think) Another thing to remember is that as technology gets better it getts smaller. So there will still be a demand for handheld games with the graphics of technology from 20 years from now. Games won't die out... Think about how many books have been writen!! How long have books been written, lets just say a long time. Gaming has only been around for 30 years tops. Gaming still has AT LEAST another 30 years.

Chrono Trigger is (i think) aged a good 13 years... the first listed copyright on the Final Fantasy Chronicles is 1991... of course, this may be for something different.

And taking that as an example, we could always improve on perfection...

Imagine making old games like Chrono Cross into total-immersion. 2 words: Kick. Ass.

anyway, there's also improving on what has already been redone over and over. In all honesty, let's see a final fantasy game built like morrowind (guilds and factions, a main quest, and quests for each faction, side quests from screwed-up npcs... you see where this is going?) with massive landscapes, while maintaining the degree of fantasy in final fantasy.

let's face it. Video games will never die, but (speaking with a deranged mind now) we certainly could take it too far... anyone who has watched or played a .hack game/show? Imagine that ACTUALLY occuring.
(Yes i know, far-fetched... my mind is wandering...)

Edit: IM REALLLLLLLY asking for a flaming with this, but:

The atom bomb wasnt going to far, it was just applying the knowledge in the wrong direction. Since then we have learned and we now have Nuclear Fission reactors to power all our cities. Granted, it's dangerous technology to have (especially with third-world countries who hate us! or at least have dictators that hate us.) but it has the potential to give us so much more.

No offense people!

An i have learned never to say anything useful and will continue that trend starting now: blah blah blah............................


My head blew up from this $%&%

Um, as long as theres trigger happy dudes like me who have 50 bucks then there will be video games. Period. Because think about it, what else would 50 bucks go to?

Already said it was dangerous Tor. And i wasnt trying to start a discussion on politics of ANY country. heck, im a USA man myself, and *I* dont like what our government does... we'd be better off as screaming monkeys.
and yes, nuclear technology is dangerous, and the research into cold fusion is what will be the next big power source, without producing waste. But the step onto nuclear fission was part of that journey. And i'm not referring to anything in particular on other countries. i dont want anything pertaining to politics to continue here, because this is already WAY too far into thread hijacking. (i never shoulda made the comment in the first place. even if it WAS related to science, rather then politics)
but there is already a lot of research into better power sources, but no matter what we do, odds are that more power = more destructiveness... but we learn. And as humans, we all get better and more socialized (most of us anyway... ) and we will get better about using science only when it's safe, and to protect against accidents (read: Tragedies) like Chernobyl.
sorry for going OT people... i apologize.

Is it off topic? I think, especially in this day and age, politics is an important part of progress. But maybe this thread should stay within the 'computer-games-world'...

As I said I don't like discussing politics, anyway... It just ends up making me mad!

But I just wanted to say that I still play text-adventures, or interactive fiction as they call it today, and I have to admit that I find it just as entertaining as the games with the most modern graphics... I never got to play Zork as a kid, so I've just started on that. Cool thing is that all this good old games are free now.

I'm gonna finally try the Eye of the Beholder series, too!

remember when i mentioned how people still play atari 2800 games?

Yo! Right here!

And you're right... politics certainly plays a role in video-games... but probably shouldnt be discussed here... Unless we're referring to some half-assed politician censoring all our video games worse then the ESRB... who are actually pretty lenient! Americans: Remember what Lieberman did (or tried to do... my knowledge isnt THAT great) to video games?

As for creating planets to play a game on, Or total immersion VR? I have only one word to say: Hentai.
Nuff said! *drools*

I never said gameplay would die out...... Just that videogames would die. And, I have also explained myself.

Hey, im quite happy with my life! And the lemon fanfics are real good too!
(One word: Rikku.)
(One more word: Yuffie)

And we're already headed in that direction. Just read a preview for the new 'leisure suit larry' game!

As for limitations, that is exactly WHY video games will keep going. There are always going to be new sciences and new systems being invented, while still maintaining reasonable costs. wait for the Next-gen systems to come out and we can all see that video games will be around forever. we just keep making new systems, that hold more information, and therefore, can display better graphics, contain more 'game' in them, etc.

Graphics are reaching their limits. Once you get to ultra-photorealistic, you can't get better. How do explain going past that? Acid trip videogames?

Games aren't dying any time soon. Yes, graphics are going to eventually reach a limit, where the artist can create exactly what they want. But that's a good thing, since no visual idea, no matter how impossible at the moment, would have to be rejected. And then game companies will no longer have to spend development time and money on the graphics engine, making more of both available for story and gameplay.


Which brings in the second point. Improvements and new additions to gameplay, and especially story, are never going to reach a limit. At least not in the forseeable future. There's always going to be something new to do, or some new world to explore, or some new story to write.

Here is a flash movie about the gaming industry big boys recycling and re-recycling the same video games over and over again, leading to a loss of overall quality. I like it, though the introduction rather boring.

Decline of Video Gaming

Of course, this will never happen. What I mean is that if the gaming industry big boys do what the movie says, then other people will take it upon themselves to release quality video games. As Peregrine said, there are no limits to the inmagination, and there will always be something new.

BTW - Decline of Video Gaming 2 is funnier, but does not quite have the same message.

That there shows some of my concerns - just watch it. You'll see what I mean.

Such as Final Fantasy CMXLVIXLIMXCLIMXCICVMXICMVICMXICMVICLCLCLXMVICMLXMVCIMLXCVMLCVMXIVMLCMVCII, and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 25.

Another way that games cant stop coming up with fresh material. So one storyline gets old? Okay, here's an idea (someone might wanna start a mod for this now, and they can have it done by the time oblivion comes out. HINT HINT people!!!!)

Picture morrowind. Picture morrowind with total immersion/VR graphics.
Now, picture yourself beating the game. You hear the last boss exclaim ILL BE BACK! (uggghhh... cliched line).

Next thing you know, you get to keep (at least some) stuff and start at the beginning, and this time the whole main plot is different. Even guild quests are slightly different. The same items arent in the same places. Everything is a fresh new world. With harder enemies, etc.

This is what video games can become. HUGE. So huge that it takes a year(s?) to beat them playing at 8 hours a day. Then you get a whole new storyline to go through. Sure it's not ENTIRELY random, but there would certainly be an element of randomness to it all.

(In case people are wondering, the idea of semi-random items was taken from Parasite Eve II; the idea of a new storyline is sorta taken from the chrono games, and the idea of going back to the start is placed in several games. Kirby games if nothing else, youd go back and have to play a harder version. the old NES mario bros did this. Picture a game that does that (always getting harder each time) over 15 times. Now THAT'S a game.)

I think that there will always be some type of visual electronics in which people are able to interact with. It might go a little underground, then pick back up, but i don't think the progress will ever die out.

If you look at how fast we have advanced in technology it's almost absurd to say that the progress will die out. It does kinda depend on what you mean by progress, if you mean progress as in advancement in realism, then yeah, somewhere along the line we will get as real as we can. But if you mean new ideas for video games, there will always be progress in that, hell, we can now play videogames via cell phone (i mean real video games, not snake).

No company in their right mind would make a game with 2 completely different plot lines, one after the other. They would sell the second as a new game. [KOTOR II, anyone?] Sure, there are different endings, but not entire different storylines..... There are branching, free-flowing storylines, but most of those are somwhat linear, and are the only one in the game.

Well i in fact proposed an idea for multiple story lines to clone while we were thinking of what the storyline for clone studios next mod should be................. But i got turned down because of "too much work"

Anyhow though, it would be nice if video games have multiple intertwisting storyline such as tribes vengence but that isnt rpg, is completally linear and in fact the storyline for tribes vengence is kinda super cliche. But it did have multiple stoylines for different charahcters at different imes but it kinda started skipping 20 years past to present to past to futere to past to present and all at the same time switiching sides or charchter.

Plus multiple storylines means more games play for same price

hmmmm... maybe i phrased that wrong. I didnt necessarily mean ENTIRELY new storylines, but you might work for different people in the same guild (new quests, but not just the same thing, but also similar, in that they are all mage related, and all are scaled in difficulty, but not just rehashes of the same things.)

As for the main quest, noone really caught on with this one. You beat Dagoth UR, you start anew, and the people who run things in the main quest are different, as are the quests. The idea is still to reach a final dungeon and beat a boss, but the boss (even if it's the same guy) behaves VERY differently. and gets progressively harder.

think of it as enemies that get tougher every time you beat the game. And they start acting smarter.

Say, this time dagoth ur disguises different people as sleepers, uses a different source of power (debateable) and has a different behaviour. Like active assassins chasing you all the time. (sorta like the dark brotherhood.)

maybe this STILL isnt phrased right... we're not talking whole new plot, just differed enought that you dont repeat the same things over and over. And the items could easily be grouped into 'sets' that would be chosen at the start of the game, and only one set could appear at a time. this means you cant exactly plan your game every time through. It's all about replay value!

My own thoughts on the whole idea of games 'dying':

It's simply not going to happen.

Think about it. Yes, graphics engines/physics engines/whatever else are getting insanely realistic, but that is GOOD. You know why? Have a look at some of the old posts in the MEMod forums. How many times is a suggestion made and the answer is 'the Morrowind engine doesn't support it'? As they get better, it gets closer to the stage where the only limitation for a game is the human imagination, and that, my friends, is virtually limitless.

I have been banned. I have nothing useful to say.

--------------------

Videogames will stay, but they will just get increasingly crappy. Not that that matters, because most people are dumb and do not care that the games are crappy.

Around 1995, back then the games were great. Real actors played and made cutscenes. Now we have 3D rendered crap, or even worse, just game models running over the screen and some stupid voice that talks for them.

Compare Privateer 2 with Freelancer for instance... I was very very very disappointed with Freelancer, needless to say.

Another thing is that today games are NOT done when they hit the shelves, and a lot of them are even bad enough that you need to patch it, and some of them won't even play at all UNTIL you patch them!

Actually, I haven't had a single game that kept me busy for more then a few days since Morrowind. Back in the golden age of computer games I played certain games for over a year before I was done with them!

Nowadays too much importance is placed on graphics, and story and gameplay aren't even IN the picture anymore. In fact, most of the time I find 3D graphics UGLY! If I have to choose between the graphics of Warcraft 1 and Warcraft 3, to me the Warcraft 1 graphics are much much more appealing... For some reason I just like to see the pixels in games. 320x240 resolution and 256 colors is fine with me, at least games had some atmosphere back then.

Personally, I liked WIII's graphics. But that's not the point. Blizzard realises that graphics don't matter as much as gameplay, and are tailoring their games to that idea. WIII had great gameplay, great multiplayer [despite the fact that you can't choose which game to join], a great story, etc....

I also agree - take me back to the old days. By far, the SNES was the best console ever.

A bit off topic but I see that peregrine edited my post...............

I post up a lengthy post on battlezone 2 and how multiple storylines was used in good games so far and what i found today is "shit shit shit shit bullshit" quoted by peregrine.

I must ask, what is going on?

Final Fantasy VI is definitely the best in the series. On SNES. Chrono Trigger - considered to be not only the best RPG of all time, but the best game of all time. On SNES. Tecmo Super Bowl - one of the best football games of all time - on SNES. Super Street Fighter II - best fighting game of all time - on SNES. It's just that back then, developers couldn't make incredible graphics, so they had to create believable characters and involving worlds/storylines to sell a game.

Yes, Chrono trigger is cool, but I like chrono cross better... more characters + more spells = More fun = More Replay value.
But i dont like the level system given in Chrono cross *sob* Where's the EXP?
And there werent enough double/triple techs IMHO... oh well, The main characters sword more then made up for it. And if you look, both games have some real-life meaning. Looking at CT, it gives some guys view of what our world was headed towards (total destruction! WHOOOOOOO!)

Chrono cross emphasizes the choices we all make. What a small difference can make in the long run. Not to mention the connections (they're not very obvious... look at Dario and Glenn and compare them to Cyrus and Frog. at this time, recall dialogue and plot about those characters, and think about the things that happened to Cyrus and Frog... interesting, yes?) between the two games.

Both games also represent corruption in society. Look at the corruption in Zeal (CT), as well as the racism between demi-humans and the rest of the world in CC.

=======

Im gonna say this JUST ONCE. PostaldudeLeo,

SHUT UP!!!!

Peregrine posted proof of what you said, and you have already pulled this ridiculous stunt the last time he tried to strike you. You cant fake the poster's name like that, right down to the time, and you cant tell me that peregrine would lie about this just to put you in trouble. Even HE isnt that evil. Not even Chronowarp on Boundkingdom was that cruel/rude.

i wasnt saying a giant demon-monster thing was gonna kill us, i was saying that we are advancing some technology to the point of dooming the whole world. IIRC (and it has been a *L O O O O N G* time) They say that Magus (yeah right...) could've killed Lavos had he been prepared when the spell was finished. This is proven by the scene you see if you lose to him at his castle (the elusive ending #14)...
Also true is the mammon machine disturbing Lavos and causing the destruction of Zeal. We destroyed our own world. And humans were doing research on Lavos when the year 1999 AD came. (This game was made in 91 or 93 (not sure now...)... what guy saw a prophetic vision of the world ending that soon?) when he came out. I was just saying that it sorta depicts the apocalypse. And i know *I* have thought of our world being destroyed by some giant alien fireball thing... (HEy, i was bored in math class okay?)

And this is now officially getting OT. Slaiv (and anyone else) ill be happy to continue this line of discussion over CT and CC via PM.

This has a small chance of happening, but perhaps some jerk got on postal's account and acted immature. If he made it so that he automatically signs in when going to the website, this is quite possible. Then again, its basically his responsibility who gets on his computer and his fault if someone gets on his account. Just wanted to point out that this has happened before to people. Perhaps you should look at postal's post history to see how he has acted in the past.

Now on topic. (sort of)

If games start focusing more on music, i think i'll always be a buyer. Chrono Cross had in my opinion one of the best musical score in the history of video games. The main reason was because they had an orchestra. Vagrant Story also had great music, even if it didn't have an orchestra. Vagrant Story had a "no bull-crap or any useless comedy" attitude, it had a very serious feel and atmosphere to it, and it seemed like the people who made it spent all the time they could on the game. In my opinion it deserves alot more credit, its a very underrated game.

Basically, i think games should start focusing on some of the smaller things. Perhaps take away the whole deadline thing (i think Fable was rushed) and should make it more of an art. Of course we're gonna have to wait until games are a little more underground before this happened.