[billypnats]

Saw a video being featured on youtube today and got me interested, just wondering what you guys think.

[Michlo]

Reason for what?

Our support of Tibet, of China? What?

I personally think they should have been able to retain their independence.

Cheers.

[wasder]

I agree. China has destroyed (or attempted to destroy) many traditions and culture. They have used brute force and violence to kepp control and I feel that it is unacceptable for them to do so. It reminds me of the Civil Rights protests in 60's America, protestors being beaten up and violence used. However, then it caused outrage and led to new laws. Unfortunately, this is very unlikely to happen in China. I do feel that it was right for China to have the olympics though, because I feel that the olympics should not be used for politics.

[billypnats]

Yes, the destruction of culture within Tibet, but lets think about what could happen after their independence, Globalization, multinationals will be there to set up sweat shop faster than you can say independence.

[herosinger]

billypnats, on Nov 29 2008, 04:32 PM, said:

Yes, the destruction of culture within Tibet, but lets think about what could happen after their independence, Globalization, multinationals will be there to set up sweat shop faster than you can say independence.

That's up to the Tibetan government (as it should be). If they need protection, they should be able to seek it, as opposed to having it forced upon them.

[Landsknecht]

Looking like how this thread is going, it looks like Tibet is going to receive 100% support here. If China was not one of the worst (if not the absolute worst) dictatorship on the planet, there might be a debate here.

As for corporate influence, countries can keep multinationals out if other countries allow them to. The problem comes when the CIA and other intelligence agencies start instigating coups for their corporate buddies. Of course, as long as the multinationals back the Chinese government, Tibet will never receive independence. I mean, just look at the Olympics, the Olympic committee learned nothing from 1936.

[billypnats]

True, lets look at what happens to other countries that refused to cooperate with US multinationals, like Chile, Guatemala, they all got invaded.

I have to say that if I was the chairman of China, I would have imposed force to maintain stability also, as a communist country, you have to have stability in order for it to work, the entire Chinese population is composed of 56+ races, that's 56+ ethnic nations, if one part starts dividing, others might follow suit.

I, given my background as a Korean minority living in China, have witnessed plenty of my own culture within China sometimes even promoted by the government, I doubt the Chinese Chairman wakes up thinking how many Tibetan monks he's killed today. It's pretty obvious that China has interests in Tibet, I personally believe that Dalai Lama (who i think looks evil, but that has nothing to do with this lol) is being used as a third party "puppet" for fulfilling national interests in other nations... namely the US.

In the end, what can they do? Wave banners? Shout protests? Provoke media coverage? those aren't gonna work.

[jaysus]

the olympic commitee sucks... there are even former nazis and mafiosi in it...

chinas gov sucks

most other govs suck... no... ALL other govs suck aswell

tibet wasnt free even before china existed... it was a feudal monarchy similiar to european ones until the mongols took it and thus later the han chinese which somehow assimilated the mongols thus asking for a free tibet is like asking for an independant normandy in france...

tibet is full of natural ressources every country would like to have

the question remains if it is useful in any way to use force to gain unity... unity itself is an honorable goal imo but i think encaging this in national interests is kinda off as unity should be worldwide but that wont be possible for a nation to achieve without massive warfare like the americans try since 50 years
thus a peaceful form of unity should be the goal even if that implies to have the population smoke weed all day

whats so different about china? really? the russians have tchetchenia, the americans chagos and god knows what other places, the WTO has germany, israel and japan (all three conquered during ww2 and all 3 have no constitution... strange eh?) etc a list without an end
and all these nations commit crimes in these places equal to those of the chinese... heck a friend of mine is in an egypt torture jail as a political captive due to the us foreign policies and hes no bloody terrorist whatsoever...
well its prolly not the nations but their corrupted leaders, corrupted by those well known for example the rothshilds and their friends

[Ethre]

Landsknecht, on Nov 29 2008, 08:04 PM, said:

Looking like how this thread is going, it looks like Tibet is going to receive 100% support here. If China was not one of the worst (if not the absolute worst) dictatorship on the planet, there might be a debate here.

As for corporate influence, countries can keep multinationals out if other countries allow them to. The problem comes when the CIA and other intelligence agencies start instigating coups for their corporate buddies. Of course, as long as the multinationals back the Chinese government, Tibet will never receive independence. I mean, just look at the Olympics, the Olympic committee learned nothing from 1936.

Always happy to oblige by arguing the "other" side Landsknecht.
To start, here's a couple

A. First became a part of China in the 1200s - its 800 some odd years since.
B. Tibet was feudal and in many ways brutal - its the ruling elite who lost out, not the Tibetan people.
C. If you want to argue they're a unique ethnic group . . . then you should do the same for Manchuria and other regions. Tibet's no more different ethnically than many other groups who are also marginalized (for better or worse) in modern China


(A is in some ways weaker as it is argued both ways, but given the importance of history here, it gets the list).

Oh yeah, and there's the economic argument too - Tibet's got resources, but as land locked as they are, only close work with another nation (read, China) can allow these resources to be fully utilized.

[wasder]

This issue is far more complex than it would appear. However, I still think Tibet should have independence, but a lot of work is needed beforehand.