[Dark0ne]

Not really related to the Elder Scrolls (but perhaps related to any future ES games that might surface) but interesting none-the-less is a new interview with Pete Hines that covers the modding situation with Bethesda's soon to be released Fallout 3. Here's a snippet:

Quote

RPS: Getting more technical – care to talk about the mod situation?

Folk probably took for granted that every time we make a game, there’s a mod tool. We explained to folk that it takes a lot of time and effort to get that tool ready for release, and it’s not on our schedule right now. We need to get the game done and out. It’s not to say we won’t do it. It’s that right now we have an enormous amount of work to do, for three platforms and all these different languages to get it out around the wall. Right now, we can’t say definitively “there will be mod tools, and here is when they’ll be out”. That work remains to be done.

I'm not sure if I "take it for granted" so much as I take it as an awesome feature of a game that sets it aside from most other games out there. The question I ask myself is "Would I like Morrowind and Oblivion as much as I do now if they didn't come with a construction set?", the answer is a resounding no. They're good games made excellent by a strong and talented modding community that compliments the great job Bethesda did on providing the construction set on day one of the game's releases.

I wish Bethesda success with Fallout 3, I know I'll be buying it, but a part of me hopes that they'll get bitten in the backside a little for this. Not anything major, just something that causes a little resentment in the Bethesda ranks and makes them look back and think "gosh, I think we should have released the SDK with the game!". Selfish and unlikely, I know, but hell...here's to honesty!

To me Bethesda set a precedent in the gaming community with Morrowind and Oblivion by releasing their SDK with the game (or on the day of the game's release); a good example to other developers of what they can be doing to both better support their community and boost sales at the same time. This latest step with Fallout 3 seems like a step backwards in my book.

It's something I'll be watching closely over the coming months. I'm interested to see if it will have any effect on the Fallout 3 community.

[Froderick]

Agreed. If they were saying, "Yes. We will release the usual mod tools, but we are uncertain of the time frame given all the work we are putting into the release.", I'd be satisfied. As it is, they are being very equivocal on whether there will be any mod tools at all. It seems obvious to me that the mod community is what gives Bethesda's games their longevity in the marketplace, and I can't imagine how they could be unaware of that fact. But, maybe they are growing so concerned with potential controversies generated by provocative user made mods that they would rather not release the tools. I hope that isn't the case, but I'm starting to wonder if that isn't the thinking behind the equivocating.

[Galahaut]

Typical Pete Hines non-answers and amusingly poor logic.

[jaysus]

lol... whatta liar...

"There's nothing you cant do with the construction-set, we used it to develope the game ourselves..." -staff answer regarding a question to de-hardcode some magic effects-

well if so whats the amount of time needed to copy the prog from where they store it onto a dvd? cause its there... they just need to put in restrictions to ensure mods wont be better than their game... and that needs time since they dont come up with the ideas years of modding produce in just a few minutes... or do i overlook somin here?

[warui_tanuki]

I didn't read the whole article, but the included quote sounds quite reasonable to me. It takes a lot of time just to make the game, not to mention the ports and regionalization. Publishers push for earlier and earlier release dates, meaning developers have to cut back on features and bug fixing. That's not a good thing, but it's reality. It's more important to more people to have a good game then to have modding tools. Modding tools equal longevity, but the game industry (the publishers, anyway) is focused a lot more on immediate sales. For that matter, they're a lot more focused on consoles right now. Nobody playing the game on a console cares about player made mods they can't even use and the console gamers make up a MUCH bigger market than the PC gamers. Again, I don't think any of this is a good thing, but it's not "poor logic." I think the indecisiveness is because they haven't decided yet.

Also, I don't think we have to worry about future TES games not having modding tools. TES has less mainstream appeal than Fallout, so it's ok for them to cater to the PC modding communities. Also, I haven't heard of any more mod-related ratings-changing idiocy lately, so maybe that's blown over?

[Palpenious]

Personally, I played Oblivion for about a year before giving in to the urge to mod it. Had it on 360, then saw a bunch of videos on Youtube. At the risk of alienating myself from the community, I'm not really sure we should need to mod the game right at it's release. Surely anyone here can relate to the feeling of wanting more, and more mods in the game. After a while, it feels like you're only playing so you can check out the new mods you've installed. Fallout seems like it will have quite a bit of personalization, similar to Oblivion, without user-created content. It seems to me, if the CS is released a few months later, it might be a good thing. It should curb the urge to right away start changing things before you see the game itself. I also think it would be better for a simultaneous release (for the company anyway). I know it won't play on my PC, but I doubt many people would be keen on waiting even 3-4 extra months for them to package a development kit with the game. That being said, if there is indeed no construction set released, then I wholeheartedly agree, it should/will bite them in the end. This site particularly has kept me playing Oblivion for well over the last year, and has continually surprised me by the originality and creativity put in newer mods. I find it difficult, therefore, to believe they have no intention of releasing some kind of construction set, but we'll just have to see.

[Sage Rime]

I'd like to see a Construction Set right away as well, because otherwise it's just another sign of Bethesda making games more appropriate for consoles rather than PCs.

Then again, maybe I can actually finish FO3 if I can't mod it? That would be something...

[Galahaut]

The poor logic comes in this answer:

Quote

Hines: That’s the other thing. Yes, the PC mod community does help extend the life of a product by the number of people who are still playing it, but as we’ve seen in Oblivion, there’s still people who are playing it on the 360 in the tens of thousands two and a half years later. In insane numbers. For two years in a row we were still in the top 10 most played Xbox games in the year, with zero user-mods. So yes, I definitely think it helps extend the community – but it’s not the only thing out there. The games themselves also do lend themselves to be continuously played and replayed. So yes, it’s a good conspiracy theory, but has nothing to do with the facts. It’s just a case of “Who the hell is going to do this?” as everyone is working on getting the game done right now.

People are still playing Oblivion on the 360 because they don't know any better, don't have any other alternatives (not a powerful enough PC, etc.), or because there aren't many (or any?) similar RPGs available for the 360. There would almost certainly be *more* people still playing on the 360 if they somehow had access to user mods (note: I don't think they should).

[kon12]

i think releasing the game alone first then releasing a SDK later would be a good idea.
Give people a chance to play the game properly before modding the crap out of it

[SamuraiNinjaGuy]

Right now, we can’t say definitively “there will be mod tools, and here is when they’ll be out”


I don't care about this, I understand what he is saying. What I want to know is:

Can they definitively say "There will be mod tools."?

If I have to wait a few months, so be it. An SDK just makes the modder's job easier. It allows rich content to be added quickly (as well as a flood of low quality crap, but meh).

Even without a SDK, people will mod FO3. It will just be reminiscent of the old days when modding was torturous, only even more torturous. On the plus side, there is usually a higher level of quality when it is really difficult to mod, simply because most people who don't really have the conviction, don't bother. On the down side, it will be a few years before we see them.