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Yet another "we're banning you because you can't read" news po Official comment topic

#1 User is offline   Dark0ne 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 08:07 PM

I'm still getting reports almost daily in my inbox about people thinking they've been banned unfairly for rating down mods, leaving abusive and unconstructive comments or just generally being a nuisance. There are numerous warnings posted on the site and available within the terms and conditions that everyone has to agree to before they can post or make ratings on the site and I'm begrudgingly taking the time out of doing other more productive things, like adding new features to the site, to write this small article on why so many accounts are getting banned at the moment.

First of all let me start by saying you don't have an inalienable right to post, rate or say whatever you want on these sites. I've been saying this for 8 years and I'll continue to say this; this isn't the U.S. of A., this is a website with clear terms, conditions and rules. Your false perceptions of free speech don't exist here. "But Dark0ne", I hear you say, "that sounds so Draconian, you're not going to make any friends like that!", well, that's how it is folks. It's our way or no way.

We're not some crazy mad men on power trips, we're active members of this community who want to see as many people happy as possible. We're nice like that you see. Unfortunately we want to run a tight ship, a ship where the people making the great (and sometimes not so great) content that you download (for free, I'll add) can feel free to do so without being spat on by every Tom, %&$! and Harry that doesn't like something for one reason or another.

Let me reitterate exactly what we want and what we don't want. The terms for rating and commenting on files states that it provides:
  • an interface to offer positive feedback on the functionality of the file in question based on the author's initial intentions
  • the ability to offer constructive criticism on aspects of the file that could be improved
  • the chance to ask for feature requests and discuss such requests with other users of the site or the author
  • the ability to ask for help in troubleshooting problems with the file in question


I've put the key points in bold because they are the parts that people fall short on and what ultimately gets people banned. Essentially our saying is "If you're got nothing good to say then don't say it". It's so, so, so simple and yet every day I get complaints from banned people who are wondering why they can no longer access the site because they told an author they can go to hell for adding content to the game that didn't fit in with the lore of the game.

The fact of the matter is that over 1,500 new people register to use this site, TESNexus and the forums every day. That's a lot of new people that need moderating. It's why we put up a lot of warnings before you rate or post that if you don't follow our ettiquette then you will be banned, because I don't have the time to go through each individual banned member case day in day out. If I did I'd get no work done at all. Being strict saves us time and allows us to provide help where it's actually necessary to people who actually deserve it. To people who can actually read. I don't think myself and the moderation staff should be penalised because people can't follow simple instructions. The fact is most people get banned from the site because they just don't bother to read our terms, conditions and ettiquette on posting and rating. That's not our fault, the message is very clear: if you don't like it, move along without doing anything.

So what do we allow? We don't want you to not post because you fear the ban hammer, this whole community revolves around interaction and sharing, but we do want you to understand that ratings are for people who have made good use of a mod and who have something productive to say. Give a rating of 5 or under to mods that have missing textures, that don't do what the description says or that have potential but haven't quite cut it for whatever reason. The point is here you need a reason other than just "I don't like this mod" or "I don't think the mod fits the lore". If the mod doesn't meet your standards then provide reasons why and how it can improve. Your rating is meant to provide help, not a way of spitting on the author and saying "screw you it sucks!". Most importantly if you don't like the concept of the mod because it doesn't fit in with your beliefs, your personal feelings, your idea of what is right or wrong or your idea of what fits in with the game then for the love of god don't rate the file; because you're going to get insta-banned. We don't care if you think Octupus-men don't fit in to the Fallout 3 canon, move along.

Lastly I will say that the people running this site are here to make the experience better, not worse, and most of all they're operating on my set of rules, so if you're going to hate on anyone, make it me. I have no tolerance for moderator bashing no matter what's been done and anyone airing dirty laundry about moderator actions is going to be shown the door very quickly. If you have problems with a moderator then you should be getting in contact with me.

There are far more people getting banned on FO3Nexus than there are on TESNexus, even though TESNexus has about 30% more traffic than FO3Nexus. I'm putting this down to the still relative youth of the Fallout 3 community. While the Morrowind and Oblivion community have had time to mature and instill the good ettiquette in authors and downloaders alike Fallout 3 is still young and many people don't understand the boundries there are within the community. The moderation team and I are hoping that this will smooth out over time, because it really is noticeable.
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#2 User is offline   gsmanners 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:02 PM

Thanks, guys. :)

I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this site.
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#3 User is offline   hort_wort 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:20 PM

I'm all for modding and banning. If I'm trying to glance through comments to see if anyone else ran into some problem with the mod, I don't want to have to weed through random angry posts. I've never felt anger toward a mod. Why be angry about something that has been offered to you for free? That's like going into Canterbury Commons and yelling at the guy for the free water.
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#4 User is offline   LucienL 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:30 PM

Ah, toxic, hierarchical communities

"as soon as I get some power I'm going to use it to stop people saying things I don't like!"
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#5 User is offline   jaysus 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:37 PM

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Ah, toxic, hierarchical communities

"as soon as I get some power I'm going to use it to stop people saying things I don't like!"


erm i think you didnt get it or was that meant ironical?

its not about abusing ones power but to keep everyone happy and contributing and the easiest way is to prevent conflicts and flame wars by making up some rules... easy as that...
there are laws and there are rules... badmouthing someone or abusing your rating rights is basicly an offense you could be sued irl aswell... just go to the next cop and call im a retard, or go to the voting ballots twice... both offenses which are suable as they break rules the society made up to live in relative harmony and equality...

but as Dark0ne said... you dont need to follow these rules but then you cant be part of this community which agreed to live by them (you did too btw when you signed up for this page and read the TOS)
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#6 User is offline   Skyshadow 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:07 PM

The recent outrage hasn't been about a certain few mods. It has been over dealing with the commenters. I fully agree that the ones who give crap ratings just because they don't like the content should be removed from the site completely, but we're talking about the removal and banning of legitimate comments with constructive criticism on those same mods, and further removal of people's comments who raised this as an issue (in a polite and rational manner, no less.) This has led to several people viewing certain mods as biased in their judgments. As I see it, that is the problem here.
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#7 User is offline   Wayward 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:07 PM

I might agree with this more if 98% of the files with 10 or more ratings are above an 8.

The numbers have no meaning when everyone gets perfect scores. I've seen people who rated 9's shouted down for not laying out the reasons it doesn't deserve a perfect 10.

Some mods are better than others. The numbers should reflect these opinions. They don't. The system is broken.
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#8 User is offline   GonzoDave 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:06 PM

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abusing your rating rights is basically an offense you could be sued irl as well


"Your Honour, this man gave my mod 4/10 and hurt my feelings. I demand 10 million internets in punitive damages."

Spoiler

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#9 User is offline   jaysus 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:22 PM

i find it hillarious that people with not even 10 posts and no addition to this community dont even stop from complaining about a system which was in place ages before they came here in the face of a thread created by the site owner in person which deals with excatly that problem...

you people dont even understand a word of what dark or me said do you?
of course no judge will give a damn about a bad mod rating but transfer that over to a real world situation and you get a suit running...
that very same judge wont give a damn if people like you get banned either btw...

its our personel private and glorious community and the moderators here do a great job in keeping it intact

that the rating system aint perfect has been discussed alot so far but till now there is no better method as we all found out after hundreds of pages worth of "constructive" discussion... sadly i didnt see any of you participating in them...

Quote

but we're talking about the removal and banning of legitimate comments with constructive criticism

one example plz... one...
im regularry checking all the "people banned" topics since quite some time now and i have yet to find a wrong descision by the moderators regarding bans...

i can only repeat it:

dont like it? leave!

try another forum if you like and i bet youd get banned just for these very comments you just made
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#10 User is offline   LucienL 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:36 PM

Jaysus, you deserve kudos for making such a long post out of nothing but logical fallacies

By paragraph:

"you're new here"
"you're dumb"
"It's mine"
"you're new here"
"oh yeah? prove it"
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